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John Venema

ANNOUNCEMENT Orbx to no longer offer products on DVD after SAK

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John, I don't understand what you are meaning mate "but DVD is my preference" :- ..as Ian has said you don't have to download it you can still obtain a DVD from the re-seller, , and thus you can buy Orbx til your wallet is emnpty mate ;D

Im assuming John's main concern is that the current boxed DVD products have no activation, where as presumably buying the DVD service from flightsimstore.com will just be the the download version only on a disc that will still require activation?

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Fair enough, but how hard is it to activate? I am probably not understanding correctly. When I download I still have to enter my purchase details to "activate" my download.

Presuming I do misunderstand, what is it that is so onerous about activating a DVD burned by and bought from the re-seller?

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Im assuming John's main concern is that the current boxed DVD products have no activation, where as presumably buying the DVD service from flightsimstore.com will just be the the download version only on a disc that will still require activation?

activation..........i think that´s the point.

i hate this when i install,a waste of time to unwarp and activate............and when you look in the registry it is full of entrys..............

for one airport it´s ok,but if you need a complete reinstall it´s a pain(last take me over a week)...........so i think i buy only regions in future,an have not to much to activate..........

so i think in furture we can only buy at FSS? all other´s has only dvd sales?

if orbx go a way like steam or other onlinegame stores i stop buying,and i fly in that aeras i have now,as long as it work!

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Fair enough, but how hard is it to activate? I am probably not understanding correctly. When I download I still have to enter my purchase details to "activate" my download.

Presuming I do misunderstand, what is it that is so onerous about activating a DVD burned by and bought from the re-seller?

I agree with you I have no issues regarding online activation, its simple and pretty much painless. Though I can almost understand why some people are so anti the whole online activation.

activation..........i think that´s the point.

i hate this when i install,a waste of time to unwarp and activate............and when you look in the registry it is full of entrys..............

for one airport it´s ok,but if you need a complete reinstall it´s a pain(last take me over a week)...........so i think i buy only regions in future,an have not to much to activate..........

so i think in furture we can only buy at FSS? all other´s has only dvd sales?

if orbx go a way like steam or other onlinegame stores i stop buying,and i fly in that aeras i have now,as long as it work!

Its really quite simple, I've just done a complete fresh install of my system, yes it takes days and theres an awful lot to activate online. But, if you use something like Acronis (other backup and disc imaging software is available) to create a system image of a clean windows (fully updated), fsx and orbx install you dont have to activate again and it certainly cuts down on reinstall times. When you add new sceneries just simply do an incremental back up of the necessary files to your original image.

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JV, I understand this decision, but I want to give you a suggestion so there would be still boxed products, but not by Orbx.

AFAIK, your DVD manufacturing partner company produced the boxes for Orbx and you sold a number of those to the resellers.

So how about this:

You do a contract with the resellers (if they'd like to do this) which says you sell them 50 copies of the product for example. But you just sell DL-copies and the resellers are now allowed to use this copies to do 50 DVDs. I think online activation is not that important for you since the current DVDs don't have it so you could remove this for the "reseller copies".

So what would we have: Very low costs for Orbx and still DVDs. Well, they might be a little more expensive than before because the resellers have to produce the boxes on their own, but I guess it's still less expensive than using the FSS DVD service+shipping+customs for EU, US or other customers who live outside Australia. And the product will be delivered faster to the customer if Aerosoft would still sell it.

Thats my suggestion, tell me if you like it or not ;)

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@Helifan123, I like that idea, if Orbx could sell their products to a publisher such as Aerosoft to make into DVD copies. Perhaps if it was just for the FTX Regions? That way customers such as myself who suffer from extremely slow internet speeds can still buy the products. There is simply no way I will be able to download regions the size of England, SAK etc. with my internet. Even single airports of say 400MB take me over 2 hours to download!

Surely FTX Global will not be download only?

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Well, I've got roughly 50-50 download and DVD. This just saves me having to make the dcision on which to buy :)

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..... There is simply no way I will be able to download regions the size of England, SAK etc. with my internet. Even single airports of say 400MB take me over 2 hours to download!

Surely FTX Global will not be download only?

As mentioned at least three times on the thread already (!):

ALL download titles are available as a shipped DVD media copy, and have been since launch. Simply check the appropriate option when ordering from FSS, and a DVD copy will be mailed to you as well as a download link.

It is only the boxed DVDs which will cease production. DVD media of downloaded copies will continue. Internet speed is, therefore, a non-issue!

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Hello,

For me DVD are good for xmass and birthdays (I tell my familly which one to buy for me), having a physical wrapped gift under the xmass tree is important and part of the tradition in Europe, so I will miss the DVD.

Etienne

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@ JV

Reading through the thread, I think most understand your move, but the one that is cropping up is "what if ORBX went bust"? It is your hope that we all own thousands of pounds worth of ORBX titles over the years. But how would we be able to re-install if there was no activation available?

Never thought of that possibility before.. :)

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@ JV

Reading through the thread, I think most understand your move, but the one that is cropping up is "what if ORBX went bust"? It is your hope that we all own thousands of pounds worth of ORBX titles over the years. But how would we be able to re-install if there was no activation available?

Never thought of that possibility before.. :)

Maybe the problem would only manifest itself if FSS AND Orbx went bust; they both have the software so it surely would be available to customers Whatever?

It would have to take 2 businesses to go bust - I'm sure we are safe (I sincerely hope)?

DVD? What's a DVD???!!!

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Fair enough, but how hard is it to activate? I am probably not understanding correctly. When I download I still have to enter my purchase details to "activate" my download.

Presuming I do misunderstand, what is it that is so onerous about activating a DVD burned by and bought from the re-seller?

Hi Bassman -

I'll try to help with the the way I view the situation. One of the things you mentioned was "Presuming I do misunderstand, what is it that is so onerous about activating a DVD burned by and bought from the re-seller?" Are you referring to the dvd which is burned by Flightsimstore and sent to you at a small amount of extra cost? If so, then you are correct that that type of dvd burned by the re- seller does require activation. But if you bought the boxed version of the software at a higher cost which comes in a plastic box with nice art work, then that dvd does not require activation. You just insert it in your computer and start reinstalling.

I have no problem with downloaded software (instead of boxed dvds), as long as no online or telephone activation is required. As long as I can download the software, burn it to a dvd and then reinstall it whenever I want without having to rely on some external activation - that is fine with me. For me the problem with downloaded software requiring online activation is as follows:

1. In case of having to reinstall the software you have to go through the activation process which adds time to your reinstallation. If you only have one scenery area to reinstall, it's not a problem at all. But if you look at some of the folks on this forum and see how many scenery areas and airports they have, you can imagine how long it would take for reinstallation.

2. But, the most important reason I don't like downloaded software which requires online activation is as follows:

First imagine you have a lot of downloaded software\scenery or whatever from various companies, which requires online activation. You've found you like all of this software and even in the case of any Orbx product (like me) you "love" it.

Now imagine if some of these companies decide for whatever reason to go out of business! Now you're left with lots of software which costs a lot of money and you really want to use them, but since the companies involved are no longer in business - you can't ever reinstall that software......

I hope this helps.. Have a good day - Howard

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Hi Howard

Legitimate concerns but knowing JVs business ethics I know he would do whatever it took to protect purchasers' software in the unlikely event of ORBX folding.

That aside, there is a way to protect your FSX installation against total loss, and that is to back up your entire hard drive contents on an independent drive using one of the backup programs availalble such as Paragon or Clickfree. In the event of system failure you can restore your entire operating system and programs from the backup to a new drive or computer. There is a cost but with the price of hard drives so low nowadays it's not onerous.

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@ JV

Reading through the thread, I think most understand your move, but the one that is cropping up is "what if ORBX went bust"? It is your hope that we all own thousands of pounds worth of ORBX titles over the years. But how would we be able to re-install if there was no activation available?

Never thought of that possibility before.. :)

1. Install product and choose manual installation.

2. Generate code for validation using the details from from your receipt.

3. Close installation after saving code.

4. Using the code, go to the wrapper validation link from the website you purchased the product from.

5. Validate the code by selecting the saved generated file.

6. Save the key to a safe directory.

7. Install product again, choose manual and load the key you saved from point 6.

8. Product will install as if you don't have internet.

This way, if in the unfortunate event that Orbx happened to cease trading, then you're safe because you have your FSK key files saved, which can be installed offline.

These keys can be installed as many times as you see fit and don't expire.

I've done this for all of my Orbx products. I save the downloaded scenery file and the FSK key to a DVD.

In this day and age, you can't be too careful; especially when a lot of us have $$$$$ of Orbx products.

Hope this helps :)

Dom

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Here in Australia not all people will have fast download options. When the National Broadband Network gets rolled out to everybody (in years to come) things might be different, depending on what politcal party is in power (as they have different ideas on what infrastructure the NBN should employ). I believe, from what I've heard on news coverage, that we are behind when it comes to speed etc. I think I am okay with the current system where I live but it will be wait and wait and wait and see for some, I suppose.

John G

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What is it that seems to be so difficult to understand about the fact that one doesn't need to download anything (as has been mentioned several times in this thread)? One can simply order the backup dvd from Adrian at FSS (the installer burned on a dvd but without any fancy cover) and all you have to use the internet for is to activate it?

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I think it boils down to guarantee that any online activation process needed will never disappear.

I'm fine with going pure download (which is not happening in this case yet), it's just the anxiety that some day there might not be an activation server in place (or a nice lady in India to read off your serial to you, as I've had to do with WinXP in the past, with even MS's activation servers for same no longer there..... or, cf. trying to reinstall Photoshop CS2 if that's all you've got... and Adobe's still around!).

Seems like that guarantee should be possible, regardless of business state....

For the slow-download issue: Ableton solved this readily by chunking up their latest release so you can get many gigabytes online, but don't have to do it all at once to get going. Really, an ideal system. When you buy a license (or upgrade), you are basically given access to the full library your license entitles you to. But, you can download a very small part of that to get going, and then other parts as you need/want to use them.

So you don't even need to keep all the gigabytes on your HD... just the subset you want to use (or a different subset when your usage needs change).

Brilliant. It's like paying one-time for access to a public library without having to take the whole library home and store it there, to use it.

I'm sure the architecting of that is heavily dependent on the design of the software, but if, say, FTX Global were 400 gigabytes total, no reason you couldn't pay the entry fee and then download those parts of the world you wanted to fly in; and delete parts you were done with for now, and download other parts. No need to keep all 400 gigabytes locally in that approach.

A totally theoretical and made-up example, no idea how large FTX Global will be, but just throwing that out there to think about.

Why "keep" digital stuff locally, as long as you can guarantee sustained access to it at very reasonable cost?

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I think it would be cool to have just the downloadable DVD Covers in .pdf and maybe the DVD label in .pdf. Like others stated above, WE then could just make our own for backup. I have them ALL backed up on my HD and would be nice to save the space and have a DVD Collection.

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HI John - I understand your reasons for going "Download Only". I don't mind "Download Only" as long as no online or telephone activation is required. As many have stated before my concern centers on what happens if for whatever reason, activation is no longer available and I then can't re install and use the scenery. I don't mind if I have to key in an activation code if one was supplied from Flightsimstore - that's ok.

Hope this helps... Howard

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HI John - I understand your reasons for going "Download Only". I don't mind "Download Only" as long as no online or telephone activation is required. As many have stated before my concern centers on what happens if for whatever reason, activation is no longer available and I then can't re install and use the scenery. I don't mind if I have to key in an activation code if one was supplied from Flightsimstore - that's ok.

Hope this helps... Howard

If you keep your FSK safe, you don't need to worry about going online to activate the product again; you don't even need to be on the internet once you have your FSK key.

Save the FSK and the scenery to a disk. When you need to install your scenery in the future; unzip the scenery, and then during the installation choose manual validation, and then choose:

Import key file

You use the file you saved.

It's all here:

http://www.flightsim...e.com/fssoa.php

Dom

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If you keep your FSK safe, you don't need to worry about going online to activate the product again; you don't even need to be on the internet once you have your FSK key.

Save the FSK and the scenery to a disk. When you need to install your scenery in the future; unzip the scenery, and then during the installation choose manual validation, and then choose:

Import key file

You use the file you saved.

It's all here:

http://www.flightsim...e.com/fssoa.php

Dom

i think that key work only for that one computer,and for a new one it´s useless...........

have you test it on a other pc,were no orbx was before?

otherwise the protektion is useless............

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Hi All, Just to allay any concerns regarding the activation of products using the FSS wrapper system let me assure you that there are contingency plans in place to ensure customers can access their products in the very unlikely event that the company is wound up and ceases trading.

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Hello all,

To add to Adrian's comment above, there is no risk of Orbx ceasing trading or going out of business; we are in good financial health and the decision to stop producing DVDs is driven by the changing nature of the interactive entertainment business models and not by any monetary concerns.

In the unlikely event that either FSS or Orbx cease trading we will ensure a validation server infrastructure remains in place to allow validation of all Orbx products. This is no different to Microsoft still running their validation server for FSX many years after the ACES studio closed its doors.

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Hello,

For me DVD are good for xmass and birthdays (I tell my familly which one to buy for me), having a physical wrapped gift under the xmass tree is important and part of the tradition in Europe, so I will miss the DVD.

Etienne

Easy fixed. Get your family to buy from the reseller and have it put on DVD and mailed to them. They wrap it and place it under the tree. That way tradition is maintained and you can leap about in excitement when present opening time arrives.

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i think that key work only for that one computer,and for a new one it´s useless...........

have you test it on a other pc,were no orbx was before?

otherwise the protektion is useless............

I doubt that very much. If you update your PC at a later date you can still use your existing FSK key. It's not tied to hardware or an internet connection.

Maybe somebody could clarify that :)

Dom

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One can simply order the backup dvd from Adrian at FSS (the installer burned on a dvd but without any fancy cover) and all you have to use the internet for is to activate it?

At what extra cost? The DVD backup already adds to the cost of each product and then how much to ship that disc half way across the world.

If you update your PC at a later date you can still use your existing FSK key. It's not tied to hardware or an internet connection.

Maybe somebody could clarify that :)

This would be good to know.

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I doubt that very much. If you update your PC at a later date you can still use your existing FSK key. It's not tied to hardware or an internet connection.

Maybe somebody could clarify that :)

Dom

Yes the fsk files are tied to the computer in a way. But in the unlikely event that there is no way of re-generating them (see my post above about contingency plans) we can provide details on how to make them work on any computer. At this time however this is proprietary information.

At what extra cost? The DVD backup already adds to the cost of each product and then how much to ship that disc half way across the world.

The additional cost to have the products shipped on disk is AUD$7.95 and this includes postage to anywhere on the globe.

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Yes the fsk files are tied to the computer in a way. But in the unlikely event that there is no way of re-generating them (see my post above about contingency plans) we can provide details on how to make them work on any computer. At this time however this is proprietary information.

Hi Adrian,

At the moment I use Orbx scenery on my mac, but say in the future I upgrade my mac to a newer model; can I still use the same FSK that I saved previously?

Cheers

Dom

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Hi Adrian,

At the moment I use Orbx scenery on my mac, but say in the future I upgrade my mac to a newer model; can I still use the same FSK that I saved previously?

Cheers

Dom

At this point in time the answer is no. If your saved fsk files don't work on your new machine you would have to generate new ones for the new machine.

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Hello all,

To add to Adrian's comment above, there is no risk of Orbx ceasing trading or going out of business; we are in good financial health and the decision to stop producing DVDs is driven by the changing nature of the interactive entertainment business models and not by any monetary concerns.

In the unlikely event that either FSS or Orbx cease trading we will ensure a validation server infrastructure remains in place to allow validation of all Orbx products. This is no different to Microsoft still running their validation server for FSX many years after the ACES studio closed its doors.

Hi John,

I trust you guys more than MS on that, so no worries here.

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I'm kind of surprised at this decision, especially after seeing the almost permanent crowd around the end of the Aerosoft stand where the ORBX products where for sale during their FS Conference last weekend.

I even bought 4 more just because they were their on display!

Personally, I've always viewed boxed sales as additional sales, rather than lost profits from what could've been a download sale, not to mention that they can lead to additional download sales of other products after someone has purchased a boxed item. This is especially relevant in the case of ORBX because there are so many products! I.e. I just got the boxed versions of US Central Rockies, Yellowstone and Jackson Hole and I can imagine as a result of that I'll end up getting more for this and surrounding areas.............the point being that I bought the boxes because they were in front of me, even though I could have bought them online before now.......and in a sale probably too!

Anyway, just a point of view that's probably not relevant. ::)

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John Thanks for the info my only question is I live in The USA why do I have to buy the download from flightsimshop why cant pcaviator or fspilotshop or hell even flight1 sell on there websites I have bought most all of the usa region on DVD anyway not trying to stir up trouble here LOL but I do recall trying to once download from the Flightsimstore and it took almost 3 hrs for the thing to download and I do have fast speed intrenet and a high end gaming computer but anyway enough said keep up the great work. ^-^

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Domfliss said "If you keep your FSK safe, you don't need to worry about going online to activate the product again; you don't even need to be on the internet once you have your FSK key. ...................... "

Thanks Dom, that sounds like a workable solution, I'll try it. One question: Will that work on files I've already downloaded which were originally validated by the online method? Thanks again for your reply. Howard edit: Just read other messages indicating this method won't work if you try to use the key on another computer (example - you buy a new computer to replace your old one). H

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Well, if I would have bought all Orbx products I own on DVD my room would be only half that big. Well, I could get rid of my desk and build a new one out of the boxes ;)

I can imagine that some users want also something for the showcase but I also can fully understand this decision.

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I have all the FTX PNW and OZ/NZ regions as well as most airports in all regions.

I guess I must be the only FTX customer who lives in the "bush". Out here ISPs restrict download volumes, especially when the only physical connection to the internet avbl is via satellite. Something city folks often don't consider in discussions of inernet wonders.

Streaming TV or even watching videos is but a dream here.

Luckily I have pre-ordered SAK from PC Aviator, the file size would be about a third of our precious monthly download limit.

John, I love the transformational effect that FTX scenery has had on the FSX experience. I will somehow continue to by FTX products. I would be happy to pay a little extra to cover the cost of DVD's to allow all your customers to enjoy FTX products conveniently. Short of this, Guess I can impose on family in cities to download files and post to me. Not ideal I think you would agree.

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Well... This comes as "questionable" news to me. I just joined, and I just bought the DVD USA Canada Pacific Fjords. I've been trying to figure out how to get my "order number" and found your latest post reference that, and then I find this! I'm beginning to wonder what I've gotten into here.

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fasurveyor mate... on this partticular post you have not asked for any assistance so don't have to show order number, but gee, after only 3 posts and nothing constructive, not even a constructive critism...

The only thing you have gotten yourself into is a forum that subject to a few rules leaves itself open to constructive critism and a lot of different opinions and a lot of healthy debate.

Did you download your CPF file or purchase a DVD?

cuzzo mate, only 1 post and you seem to have gotten the idea of this forum..you have made your constructive comment and then arrived at your own solution..welcome to the forum mate.

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I'm amazed at the lack of understanding or is it just being too lazy to read the entire thread here. IF you absolutely, positively HAVE to have a DVD just get the download and pony up the extra few dollars (under ten bucks) for the plain DVD that Adrian has available if you want it. The price covers postage anywhere in the world except the International Space Station ::) .

This kills two birds with one stone. You instantly get the software and a few days later your DVD arrives in the post and you can tuck it under your pillow knowing all is right with the world.

As for activation if needed later, this thread has already told you if the company went belly up there will be provisions made for that contingency.

Now lets talk about more important things like what is the next scenery area to come from ORBX for our enjoyment.

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Quite an interesting read on the subject of activation:

http://www.twistedli..._slippery_slope

As much I dislike the whole activation process, I can understand why some companies are compelled to go down this route.

On a slightly different note.....

Orbx make the best scenery at the moment for FSX; without Orbx, FSX is the ageing 7 year product it is.

For me, the only real way to be 100% sure that your software is safe in the future is to go out and buy the DVD's. Individuals can make promises about contingency plans, but until the situation arrises, one can never know for certain if they will/can be put into place.

Like reading an ebook....it's only a licence to view.

On a more morbid look on things (stay with me, LOL); if an individual wanted to pass on their Orbx DVD collection in their will, it's quite possible; but with downloaded material? I'm not sure.

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GO Navy.

Customers that have no interest in paying extra for DVD service, then having to activate that DVD, will find something else to do. Human nature.

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