Jump to content
John Venema

ANNOUNCEMENT Orbx to no longer offer products on DVD after SAK

Recommended Posts

With immediate effect, Orbx will no longer produce its products on DVD after the production run of SAK Southern Alaska.

This has been something we have considered for some time due to the downturn in demand for DVD products, the closure of our DVD manufacturing partner company, and the general move in the interactive entertainment industry to online-only distribution.

Whilst I know this may come as a disappointment to both customers and resellers, we need to tune the business to match market forces and cut costs in areas which incur costs.

For those of you who have been "collecting" the Orbx DVD sets, it may be a good time to collect any titles missing from your collection since they will be rare in a few months from now when the warehouse stock in empty.

I will tolerate discussion in this topic about this policy decision but the moment it turns sour I'll lock it and make in an FYI only topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the HU John; I'm sure this will come as a disappointment to some (not myself as I purchase the DLs) but your reasoning is understandably justified. Heck, if reducing a few small costs extends the future of ORBX then I'm sure you can be forgiven! Unfortunate news for your DVD manufacturing company though. I guess it just goes to show the fragility of today's business world and the digital age that we're in.

Regards,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I originally started buying ORBX products I purchased DVD's. However, downloading is far more convenient, efficient and personally cost effective. I also know when I download that I am getting the most up-to-date version available.

Your policy decision makes perfect sense John.

Thanks,

Roger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With immediate effect, Orbx will no longer produce its products on DVD after the production run of SAK Southern Alaska.

This has been something we have considered for some time due to the downturn in demand for DVD products, the closure of our DVD manufacturing partner company, and the general move in the interactive entertainment industry to online-only distribution.

Whilst I know this may come as a disappointment to both customers and resellers, we need to tune the business to match market forces and cut costs in areas which incur costs.

For those of you who have been "collecting" the Orbx DVD sets, it may be a good time to collect any titles missing from your collection since they will be rare in a few months from now when the warehouse stock in empty.

I will tolerate discussion in this topic about this policy decision but the moment it turns sour I'll lock it and make in an FYI only topic.

I am not concerned since I only have the download versions. But what keeps ORBX to provide a pdf or jpg of the DVD cover so that the "collectors" can burn their copy to a DVD and have it in their cupboard?

I know that this will still not be a solution for the people with slow or no internet access. But they can order the "Digital-Media-Service" by the FlightSimStore, can't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem with digital download products if its easy to re-download in the future like at the flightsimstore.

But maybe flightsimstore could offer a "Instant Download + CD ROM by mail" service for people with download limits. A simple burned dvd with the download on it for a small fee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a few boxed products, they were all gifts before I managed to convince the relatives that a download burned on to a disc for them to wrap up is just as good gift and cheaper too :lol:

I may have felt different if I still had crappy BT rural broadband but even when I only had 2Mb line the regions didnt take too long to download if left to their devices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John; am I right in thinking that if one chooses the installation which creates a key file; then theoretically you could copy both the key file and the zip file and place them on a DVD for safe keeping?

Then even if (heaven forbid) Orbx ceased to exist in the future; one could still install the product?

Dom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bad news for me, as I strongly stick to DVDs. I may be old, but I want to get something in hands when I spend money. Plus, I prefer easy & straightforward backup in case of a system breakdown (hope this is unnecessary, but we´re talking about Windows PCs, aren´t we?).

However. I strongly support DocBird´s suggestion with professional cover downloads.

I am not concerned since I only have the download versions. But what keeps ORBX to provide a pdf or jpg of the DVD cover so that the "collectors" can burn their copy to a DVD and have it in their cupboard?

I know that this will still not be a solution for the people with slow or no internet access. But they can order the "Digital-Media-Service" by the FlightSimStore, can't they?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No worry to me as I only download and that way I have the most up to date version. But like DocBird I would like to see you produce a library of DVD and box templates so I can print my own DVD labels and box covers. I only burn to DVDs that I can print directly to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No probs with initial DL, then capability to make own DVD for re-install as required without further DL or re-activation - that being the only reason I prefer DVD. Just saves a bit of time if the internet is having one of those ever increasing "go-slow" periods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having had my own issues with windows and having to reinstall everything it was a godsend having DVDS of all the Orbx titles I have. I was able to get back up to speed very quickly. if I had to re download again it would have been a killer for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having had my own issues with windows and having to reinstall everything it was a godsend having DVDS of all the Orbx titles I have. I was able to get back up to speed very quickly. if I had to re download again it would have been a killer for me.

I keep from every scenery download a copy on a external HDD. And as you can see in my signature I have a lot of ORBX scenery's. The first scenery that I bought from FTX was full Australia SP1 and this was the DVD version.

Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep - like Peter I have all my ORBX collection zipped up on external drive. I can sleep at night knowing my collection is safe.

DL only fine with me however for those that like the look and feel of having the collection on a shelf then the burn to CD with a PDF cover would be great.

Jas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a lovely 'FSX Addons' DVD collection, indeed I am very fond of it too, but alas, the sign of the times - CHANGES :)

Like Matt says we all (I think we do) have good broadband connections so let's move with the times. If it means ORBX can free up resources and invest them elsewhere it has to be a win win situation - Surely?

Who goes to the high street to rent a DVD anymore? I don't!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I started with Orbx, I used to buy the DVD. Now, it's over. I use the download facility and don't have to wait for anything. Simpler, faster, and it does not take any space in the office.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bad news for me, as I strongly stick to DVDs. I may be old, but I want to get something in hands when I spend money. Plus, I prefer easy & straightforward backup in case of a system breakdown (hope this is unnecessary, but we´re talking about Windows PCs, aren´t we?).

THe option of a DVD copy will still be available through the Flightsim Store I think. So that should allay your concerns re having something tangible to purchase. The only downside compared to the other DVDs is the need to use the install key.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One small request for download files. Is it possible to add an autorun file to the download so that when we burn it to a dvd it will run automatically when inserted in the drive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THe option of a DVD copy will still be available through the Flightsim Store I think. So that should allay your concerns re having something tangible to purchase. The only downside compared to the other DVDs is the need to use the install key.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong :-)

The problem for us customers in oversea areas are customs issues if we are no longer able to buy DVD's let's say in Europe (and I guess it is the same for the US...). If we order a Digital-Media-Service-DVD from Australia we will be liable for customs upon the entry to Europe, aren't we?

I download the products and make a separate DVD for every add-on with the zips on it and a txt file with the installation details. That does, however, not solve the issue of a lack of an internet access in case of reinstalling. But maybe (so to speak in return for the safed money for the DVD production) Orbx can provide a small file with every download that enables the download customers also to install the product off-line just like the DVD-customers (although I don't know if that is technically possible from a point of piracy protection).

All this reminds me that I will have to burn my last purchases to DVDs...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a lovely 'FSX Addons' DVD collection, indeed I am very fond of it too, but alas, the sign of the times - CHANGES :)

Like Matt says we all (I think we do) have good broadband connections so let's move with the times. If it means ORBX can free up resources and invest them elsewhere it has to be a win win situation - Surely?

Who goes to the high street to rent a DVD anymore? I don't!

You mean we can actually still rent dvds in Cambridge? My local Blockbuster and Choices closed down years ago, but then Ive always been one for buying rather than renting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand the reasons for this but personally I'm a little disappointed. Half my collection of Orbx scenery has been given to me on DVD as birthday or Christmas presents. This will not make that so easy. It could also mean that my order numbers would be spread across several accounts that aren't mine.

It's sometimes possible to pick up DVDs in sales too and I'm currently confused about Orbx's policy regarding sales. Sales are great for picking up those products that aren't so interesting to you but you still have a small hankering for ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't bother me at all. I have fast download speeds and I always burn a copy of the download onto a DVD anyway for my own personal storage.

I rarely look at the DVD in my storage box, so a picture on the cover is of no concern either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am personally disappointed, but I can see how this makes financial sense these days and I would much rather deal with greater inconvenience than see Orbx cease to exist and end my supply of superb scenery. My reasons for preferring DVDs are simply that I would much rather have a physical copy somewhere, although backups help, and the major reason for me is that, like some others here, I regularly refresh my entire PC, with a reformat and reinstall of Windows and FSX/P3D.

The number one complaint I have with the downloads is the dozens of copy/pastes required for names and serial codes, etc... I can set and forget DVD installations and be doing paperwork or playing with the kids in the other room, but when I am reinstalling the downloads, it feels like the annoyance factor goes up by about 50. I understand the piracy issue, although I personally prefer Francois' approach, that pirates wouldn't have purchased your software anyway so you aren't actually losing sales, but I completely respect your right to run your business the way you believe gives you the greatest benefit.

I will continue buying your sceneries by download, as long as I can afford them and you continue to produce them at such an excellent level with constant improvement, but two changes would make it a much nicer proposition for me.

1: Since your decision is based on the assumption that everyone is operating with broadband connections, when you release a patch could you update the downloadable installer with it as well, so we could choose to update our basic install files and skip the patching? I thoroughly enjoyed when the installers were P3D updated, because the patches were rolled into them and it simplified my installation procedure quite a bit. I downloaded them all and saved a ton of time sorting through patches.

2: I doubt you will do this because it isn't your business model, but any way to reduce or eliminate the constant "guilty until you prove yourself innocent" barrage of info requests associated with downloaded software installations would be much appreciated. I have stopped purchasing modern video games because DRM has become so ludicrously obnoxious, with the whole "you are not buying anything, you're just borrowing it and paying us a substantial chunk of your income to obtain our permission to look at it" attitude. I still enjoy my older games, and it certainly gave me more time to fly, so that didn't bother me, but seeing it creep into my absolute favorite virtual pastime has been hard to swallow.

Either way, as long as the benefit I obtain from your software substantially exceeds the frustration of using it, which it currently does, I will continue to support you and purchase your products that I want. In fact, I just bit the bullet and purchased your New Zealand regions and Milford Sound, leaving North America for the first time, because they looked too good to pass up! (And because that way I'm not stuck flying in the dark at certain times on the DTP servers ;-) ) Mountain flying/exploring is my favorite type of simming, and I am loving Milford and the amazing terrain around it! So thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, this type of decision creates a slow-moving stream for "Orbx Global" plus "Updates", as well as specific sceneries. I dislike the idea, but will adapt and find temporary solutions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sad to hear. I just (yesterday) ordered Felts and Bella Coola on DVD.

Most of my Orbx collection is downloaded, but exchange rate and credit card foreign currency transaction fees made it cheaper to buy the DVD versions.

FSPilotShop's sale price for Bella Coola ($27.95 USD) put me in a buying mood. Knowing shipping was $3.99, whether I bought one or two DVDs, prompted me to also buy Felts ($32.95).

Without the sale, I would still be waiting for an excuse to buy both.

I am a fan of box art, having a physical product, and easier installation, but I don't blame Orbx for their business decision.

Entering order number, order date, and product key for each install gets old. (Luckily I've only done a complete FSX + Orbx re-install once.)

A streamlined registration method would be nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean we can actually still rent dvds in Cambridge? My local Blockbuster and Choices closed down years ago, but then Ive always been one for buying rather than renting.

Hi Matt

Blockbuster moved from East Road and went to Milton Road - but that shut down a few weeks ago :(

You are correct we cannot rent a DVD in this fair city of ours!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will take me out of the market. Living in an internet black spot with the government fix taking longer and longer to even begin means the packages are too big for my monthly allocation and too slow on my connection. If P3D v2 comes out on DVD I won't be bothering with it if I can't get Orbx. Am I the only one with this issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will take me out of the market. Living in an internet black spot with the government fix taking longer and longer to even begin means the packages are too big for my monthly allocation and too slow on my connection. If P3D v2 comes out on DVD I won't be bothering with it if I can't get Orbx. Am I the only one with this issue?

If you order the package from the Flightsim Shop with the DVD option (Digital Media Service), you don't need to download the large file, as it will arrive on a DVD instead. Costs a little more but the charge is reasonable .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm lucky now to be able to afford a relatively fast Internet connection (for the US, at least, that backwards, falling-apart country... what's the opposite of an emerging nation? A retreating nation? Oh well....), but that's not guaranteed.

I much prefer backing things up to external HD, or even flash USB key, instead of DVD. DVDs are slow and, I suspect like CDs, maybe not be that permanent over the years.

Otoh while I love the idea of not having to store stuff locally as long as I can get it from The Cloud when needed, two things worry me (and this isn't just for ORBX, but for everything):

1. _Can_ I rely on being able to retrieve it from The Cloud years from now, or even a year from now? Or will there be Yet Another Format Transformation, even? What if, Thank God, someone finally discovers a universal means of data security, one that doesn't require endless records of passwords, serial keys, registry entries, etc. etc. etc.? Does that mean yet another huge conversion of everything, re-buying it all for the 500th time, or yet another cycle of abandonware? Only the future will tell.

Meanwhile, continuity of accessibility of Bought Digital Things in The Cloud is very fragile, and dependent on businesses not going under. I first got bit by this years ago with E-Magic's Sounddiver, MIDI library software, when Apple bought 'em. And that was even before The Cloud was a factor.

I worry that this drives everyone into the arms of giant corporations over time, and away from usually more creative small, independent businesses. Perhaps an Amazon, or an Akamai, becomes the guarantor of services and continuity, regardless of the state of the business which originally created and licensed the software; a standardized means of continuity if a business should fail. It's technically very feasible, and would be a huge relief and enabler of this all-online distribution environment.

2. Is of course the economics and related independence of control in all this. Personal computers came about in reaction to the restrictive, arcane and hugely expensive characteristics of mainframe environments. Only the processing and software you need, instead of an overpriced time-slice of the whole system, leaving you constantly hanging with your wallet out and waiting to get your turn.

Things are a little different this time, but the problem is similar. My utopian dream would be that you no longer buy license to individual pieces of software, but everyone on both sides pays the Akamai Middleman for full access on one side to all software and related content, and on the other Akamai pays profit to the Producers from all carefully tracked and fully accounting-accurate usage of software and data contributions to The System. Simpler for everyone, will drive costs hugely down for end users and the efficiencies could provide much more substantial, measurable and predictable profitability for the producers. The trick here is that said Akamai would have to become a global, public utility...

Far more macro in concept than The Cloud is even now, but where I think it will all eventually go.

The danger of the current "subscription" model, be it NY Times, MS Office or Adobe Creative Suite 6, is that it's inefficient for users (I don't want to pay during times I don't use), and volatile and unpredictable for sellers (price of wheat skyrockets globally one year, suddenly everyone can't afford to spend on CS6 any more). As I've seen in the online games industry, the economics of it are extremely susceptible to complete collapse.

So, just some fleeting thoughts about all this. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we should just accept ORBX's descision and let them run their business how they see fit, as long as the quality of the product remains as good as it is we have no right to whinge, yes for those of us with slow internet or small download ability it will be a pain but as has been said for a few extra dollars you can have a dvd and just stick the details in when needed which isn't that often unless you have a major system problem as I had a few months ago (backups and seperate hd's are good at these times) but aside from that I'm happy to keep downloading.

Just my 2 bobs worth ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having had my own issues with windows and having to reinstall everything it was a godsend having DVDS of all the Orbx titles I have. I was able to get back up to speed very quickly. if I had to re download again it would have been a killer for me.

a good reason to back up. Backing up is even easier than DVD's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Matt

Blockbuster moved from East Road and went to Milton Road - but that shut down a few weeks ago :(

You are correct we cannot rent a DVD in this fair city of ours!

I would like to say I miss the ability to rent a movie, but well Orbx consumed that time up :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I probably have the whole sale system wrong, but why can't a re-seller be licenced to burn a DVD for a little extra charge?

Orbx wholesales the software. The re-seller provides a download site or a DVD order....everyone is happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FSS can burn a DVD currently, as John pointed out above.

A small extra charge for shipping and processing, but very reasonable and solves the problem for those with slow Internet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to say I miss the ability to rent a movie, but well Orbx consumed that time up :lol:

Yes indeed - I really never new what I was signing up for with FSX!!

My wife thinks she Is an FSX widow!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking this decision as shipping data via physical media is no longer cost effective compared to digital distribution. I'd rather you spend the money on pumping out ORBX Global please and generally keeping the business in the black as I like your products.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you order the package from the Flightsim Shop with the DVD option (Digital Media Service), you don't need to download the large file, as it will arrive on a DVD instead. Costs a little more but the charge is reasonable .

Yes, I have done that but DVD is my preference for reasons given elsewhere in this thread (and we hope Orbx will always be around as long as we need to reinstall!). I may well end up simply buying one line, e.g. Europe, and a lot less..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, I don't understand what you are meaning mate "but DVD is my preference" :- ..as Ian has said you don't have to download it you can still obtain a DVD from the re-seller, , and thus you can buy Orbx til your wallet is emnpty mate ;D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have stopped purchasing modern video games because DRM has become so ludicrously obnoxious, with the whole "you are not buying anything, you're just borrowing it and paying us a substantial chunk of your income to obtain our permission to look at it" attitude. I still enjoy my older games, and it certainly gave me more time to fly, so that didn't bother me, but seeing it creep into my absolute favorite virtual pastime has been hard to swallow.

same here,i also buy no more games, some keys do not work on a new computer,so you can pay again......so they lost a custumer..............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...