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tennyson

Took the plunge

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Thanx for the heads up John.

I'll bump it back again.

I was kinda wondering about the time of day thing.

I have my SLI operational now and quite frankly, bang for buck, it's very disappointing. My frames never changed but the terrain seemed to load a lot quicker and was a bit smoother, but considering the extra cost of a video card, in my case a 9800GX2 worth about 700 bucks, I guess I might have been wise to spend it on my CPU and have bought the extreme chip.

Oh well, nothing ventured as they say!!

I'm still having trouble getting my AI traffic going. I've loaded the proggy but the airports are bare.

I'll head over to the help section and see if somebody can help.

And can anybody tell me where to get the info on modifying the config file?

Thanx in advance,

Frank

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I have my SLI operational now and quite frankly, bang for buck, it's very disappointing.

This is what I've maintained for some time, money spent on Main Board, Processor, Memory, HD's  that are totally matched in performance is the better option.

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Frank,

  There is a guy that hangs around the Avsim froum...NickN......that is buidling an i7 rig...the big chip...I asked him about myself going with the Q6600 or the i7 920. He could not give me an answer on that as he is still testing his new layout but he did say "I have not seen anything yet that would make me want to go back to a 4GHz clock QX97 on DDR3 but I have a lot more testing to do." To me that speaks volumes. He is also an FSX guru...my words....not his...and knows his way around pc's and FSX like very few others do. Using a lot of his posted tips and guides I have been able to get decent results out of this P4 3ghz way past its' life span. He...and many others will tell you that using two video cards with FSX can acutaly slow it down. I am sure he has some great advice once he is through wringing out his new i7. I was ready to buy the Q6600 but can get the i7 920 for the same price as that rig. It is not a question of me upgrading, I have to buy everything new and if I can get the latest chip out I might as well do it. I have read all I can about the i7 920 and the Q6600. Without oc....whcih I am not crazy about anyway.....the i7 wins hands down. Of course I have not spoken to anyone who has made that move to an i7 920 so all I can read about is benchmarks...none of which are FSX. People say wait til 1st quarter...and that sounds good but I want to fly this winter as I rarely fly in spring, summer, and fall due to my fishing and golf. Winter is over here pretty much at the end of March so if wait too long might as well wait until next fall LOL. I have to make up my mind pretty quick if I am going to spend my winter flying with much smoother results than I get now. I hoipe within a week or two someone will have already made that plunge to the 920 and can tell me something.

                                                                                                                                          Regards

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He...and many others will tell you that using two video cards with FSX can actually slow it down.

I believe that FSX is NOT SLI aware and that would be the reason.

BUT as with the Matrox TH2GO you would think the system should see it as a single CARD 

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Hey Randy,

Thanx for the info. I'll look up that guys posts.

I checked the prices yesterday and my CPU, RAM and Mobo have already gone up by between 400 and 700 bucks depending on wholesalers.

I don't think you will find much difference between the 920 and the 940 (probably a few frames in FSX) but the difference between Quad and i7 is much greater.

I had forgotten that SLI is dependant on NVIDIA software and when I downloaded the 180 drivers my SLI came up and I was off and going.

I am reluctant to believe that running two cards would be slower than running one. My own experience is different.

This is probably the 4th rig I've built with SLI and my results from running two cards, as previously stated are still marginal.

I'd be the first person to say I'm obsessed with my toys and if I think I'm gonna get an extra two or three frames, damn the cost, but that's just me.

AS far as installation and getting the whole rig going, I've been so happy. It was a dream to set up, everything worked straight out of the box, unlike many other cutting edge upgrades I've done throo the years.

Hope those that follow experience the same good fortune.

I truly believe Intel are on the right path at the moment, at least for the most important sector of computing, The Flight Sim Industry!!

Frank

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I believe that FSX is NOT SLI aware and that would be the reason.

BUT as with the Matrox TH2GO you would think the system should see it as a single CARD 

G'day Mozz, my system has a line in the nHancer control panel which reads  "SLI Setup Detected " and under that in green "SLI Enabled" - and it performs better on two cards than one, so I have a sneaking suspicion that my installation of FSX is well aware of the two cards.   ;)

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I think what you'll find is that nHancer is aware of the SLI and then it's doing the work (softwarewise) to fool FSX into thinking there is only one card  just like the system see's 1 bloody big monitor with the TH2GO and not the 3 plugged into it.

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Frank,

 Understand completely. I have to get off the fence on what system I will build or buy. There are some good deals on the i7 now and while it may not usually be the case I have also thought what if they go up in price. Dell....which I do not like to buy.....has a heck of a deal going but it is over with in about 12 hours. Believe me I know Dell. That deal will be gone and there will be other deals down the road... maybe a long way down the road depending on the economy here. I just can't see myself building a system on the Q series of quads when I can get the i7 920 for almost the same price as I was going to build a Q6600 for. Of course I am basing that on all of the reviews I have read that says even the i7 920 blows the QX9.... series out of the water also. I understand people who have an E8400 or Q.... series not rushing out to spend some money just to get what may turn out to be only a slight edge for some. But for me I know the upgrade from P4 to an i7 920 will blow me away. All computers are funny beasts. I worked for a major defense contractor for many years on several major air defense missile systems. I saw a lot of advancement in the field of computers in my almost 30 years of doing that but one thing was funny. We had certain checks of certain computers.....that while they would be working correctly.....the indicator lights would tell us during the check that there was a problem....but it really was not. Other radar computers would pass that test. The DOD and defense contractor just rewrote the manual to reflect the change. FSX is like that. Take two identical machines all else being equal and FSX can have major performance differences on the two exact same machines. That is what has scared me for so long on buying a new machine. I have read literally hundreds of posts over at Avsim of people with much more powerful machines than mine and not getting the performance that I get and get nowhere close to what they should be getting for that particular CPU. Put any racing sim in these machines and just play and it runs great. Not so with our hobby. FSX is and always has been a mystery in how it works or in  a lot of cases how it does not work. So I will be flying a lot this week and weekend down under as Monday I am having a carpal tunnel release. Not a big deal but I plan on taking the week or two for recovery looking at a big box in the middle of my floor with an i7 920 build or complete PC in it and be ready to get it loaded up with Orbx and other stuff and start a new chapter with FSX waiting for whenever the next version comes out. I do not know what kind of results NickN is having with his new i7 but I expect from what little tidbits he has talked of it sounds like he has seen quite an improvement over his Q9..... whatever he had. I will continue to follow your build and see how things come out.

                                                                                                                                                     Regards

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Small Update:

I have finished two of my three drives now and still have one to go.

In the productivity side of things, rendering (for DVD) seems quicker (as it should) and I'm not sure if it's the mobo, but am having very few problems with software installations. I thought it might be the extra overhead in the CPU (8 Mb level 3 cache).

Photoshop loves the i7 and I loaded a folder of photos onto Photoshop yesterday from my daughter's formal before realizing that it had loaded 127 photos of 18 mb each.

I worked on each one, added filters, etc. and not a problem.

It is equally impressive with the DVDs and video's I've been playing with as well.

So far, I am very impressed.

I'll be getting back to some flying tonight with an agenda to monitor frames and log settings.

Will try and post them tomorrow,

Until then

Frank

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tennyson great read so far and really enjoying your opinions on the new hardware and also a very beautiful daughter you have there but your game posting crap like that on the internet with all the tards floating around it's something I wouldn't do but I guess most kids theses days have that face book thingy etc.

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I see a problem with you i7 setup.  You are supposed to have THREE MATCHED memory sticks on your monterboard.  The i7 has TRIPLE channel memory for even faster performance.  Use a MINIMUM of 6mb in your system as Vista runs even faster with 3x2mb (6mb) memory...

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I see a problem with you i7 setup.  You are supposed to have THREE MATCHED memory sticks on your monterboard.  The i7 has TRIPLE channel memory for even faster performance.  Use a MINIMUM of 6mb in your system as Vista runs even faster with 3x2mb (6mb) memory...

Please read the previous posts in this topic. This has already been discussed and Frank has an answer.

Ulf B

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I have been following this thread right from the start and I am now more confused than ever. Some of my beliefs have been seriously shaken. Others have been reinforced.

What has realy surprised me is the "low" fps being achieved. My current box is now six months old..

Mainboard : Asus STRIKER II EXTREME

Chipset : nVidia nForce 790i Ultra SLi SPP

Processor : Intel Core 2 Quad QX9650 @ 3000 MHz

Physical Memory : 4096 MB (4 x 1024 DDR3-SDRAM )

Video Card : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2

Hard Disk : WDC (300 GB)

DVD-Rom Drive : PIONEER DVD-RW  DVR-212 SCSI CdRom Device

Monitor Type : ViewSonic VX924 - 19 inches

Monitor Type : ViewSonic VX2240 - 22 inches

Operating System : Microsoft Windows XP Professional 5.01.2600 Service Pack 3

DirectX : Version 9.0c  (October 2008)

CPU o'clocked to 3.5 by multiplyer only.

I run it with all sliders hard right. FPS average 50/80

After considerable (expensive) testing I have reached the conclusion that running 2 vid cards in SLI is counter productive. No improvement in fps and no noticeable improvement in quality.

Vista Ultimate 64 bit causes too many problems. XP handles fsx much better. The only advantage is the ability to use more ram. Unnecessary!

Because my computer spends 99.9% of the time running FSX, multiple hard drives and Raid are unnecessary.

Any "tweaking"  of  fsx.cfg is unnecessary. In fact if can be counter productive. At present I am running nothing in it apart from default settings.

This allows equal shareing of all cores and even temps. All in 50/60 range.

I also used MSCONFIG to untick all items except vid card and AV. Then rebooted. So nothing unnecessary is loaded.

I reckon I have a near perfect setup. FSX runs properly most of the time and I get top quality pictures. So I'm happy. (For the moment)!

Jack

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Jack,

Not that I am doubting that you are getting 50 to 80 frames per second (is that also around YMML?), but my experience has been different from yours.

If I could get those frames doing nothing to a bare bones FSX/FTX, I'd put my money back in my pocket.

Can you show me some of the piccys you can get or some video of your setup.

If this is true, I could have spent another 3 grand on software.......is a triple platinum subscription still available from ORBX???

Frank

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Jack,

  FSX is a strange piece of software. I don't doubt your FPS but all of that is subjective. While I have never archived 80fps I have gotten in the 50's and 60' using Orbx scenery. But when we talk of FPS it means different things to different people. At those rates are your textures sharp all the way to the horizon or do they drop off a little bit? My system is so old I don't even list it in my specs......P4 3ghz...2gig ram....and that is with single channel as a lightning strike took out a DMA channel and my memory will not run in dual mode. Flying in the USA with GEX.....FEX.....FSGEN......I can get FPS in the 40's but texture popping occurs with autogen....which I rarely run because it brings my system to its knees around a medium city or larger. And on some occasions I will get the blurries as the CPU is trying to catch up....which it will but it may take a minute or so and then maybe not occur for an hour...maybe. I can fly out of Seattle with the default Cessna and get 12 FPS but it is reasonably smooth....but lots of textures popping in and out. Flying out of Melbourne I get 6 FPS and it looks like a slide show until I get into the air and well away from airport. Even flying using FTX I can still get some texture popping but it is far better than flying in the USA. The system you have, compared to mine, is like 19th century vs 21st century....I know that....but if you can get those kind of FPS out of Melbourne....or even half of that....we all need to take a look at your system....it must be something special. I am waiting a few more days to assemble a system that will be close to what tennyson has....I am getting the 920 vs his 940....but I will clock it to around 3.4 ghz I think very easily. The first place I will go to fly to see how good it does is Melbourne. I have read many post about the i7 and I am not putting down your CPU as I have never even seen FSX on anything other than my PC but everything I have read says that even the baby i7 can out muscle the 9....series quads. Personally I don't know. As soon as this stitched up palm of mine heals enough that I don't think I will rip it open installing all of this new stuff in a computer case I will find out what the i7 920 will do. If I don't get smooth performance out of Melbourne I am going to be one angry man....and feeling stupid also. Notice I said smooth performance. Yes I do on occasion look at the frame counter....but as I read and learned from reading Nick Needham's posts.....I hope that is the correct name....FPS is not a good indicator of FSX. I also would look forward to seeing some pics of your system flying somewhere. I do know we all can always learn and I hope there is something I can gather from you to make my FSX experience better.

                                                                                                                                                        Regards

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Settings and screeny at these settings.

Pics have only been resized, nothing else. They were snapped at 3840 x1024.

Settings:

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Pics snapped at these settings:

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As you can see, some of the frame rates are below 20 FPS but then again, you can read the writing on the sign next to the bowser and the clarity is spread throughout the 3840 x 1024 screens. I suppose I could give up some of that clarity for the sake of a few more frames but for my money as long as it's flying smooth and I see all the ORBX eye candy, I'm a happy little munchkin.

Frank

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I have been following this thread right from the start and I am now more confused than ever. Some of my beliefs have been seriously shaken. Others have been reinforced.

Jack

The last few months of my spare time has been spent fiddling around with various combos of components looking for the magic machine which will run FSX without stutters and hesitations.

Working from a knowledge base of zero, and using the forum members as friendly guides, there have been five different models (that worked at least), culminating in a quadcore with two VGA's in SLI which I thought was reasonably smooth , but not perfect, so I had decided to save up for a few more years until I could get the latest in i7's to improve on my handiwork. 

After this process a DOA m'board was unexpectedly replaced under warranty, which left me with a spare, so I threw it in an old case, slapped in a dual core and spare card and wound it up - had great difficulty loading the OS, but due to a fortunate combination of fumbles, it eventually sprang to life.

When I loaded the raw FSX program (with no SP1 or Acceleration) imagine my surprise when it ran FSX so smoothly that I literally sagged in my chair; (remember how slow and rough FSX was before the SP's etc came out?)

-- with the FPS locked at 26, fluctuating between 25.8 and 26.1, (or unlimited skimming along, sometimes over 200) - not that that is the measure of perfection, just a guide I use occasionally. But the smoothness of movement of the aircraft and scenery is unbelievable.

Over capital cities and airports (Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney), now with Acceleration loaded, the frame rate hardly varies and the scenery runs smoothly, even with the Default F18 doing steep turns and the AI and airport traffic at 50% and autogen at very dense.

The specs of this surprise package (ASUS Striker Formula II; E8600 std @ 3.3; 4GB ram; GTX280; 650W PSU; vista 64Bit) have me scratching my head about accepted wisdom and beliefs  ??? , but needless to say I use this 'afterthought' more than my topline machine.

It will be interesting to see how it handles ORBX ML.  ;)

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Frank,

  Great shots! I was going to ask you why the 6 FPS in the one pic but then I saw at what resolution you are running!! I will have to go back and look at what size monitor you have. That is an insane resolution but sure does look good.

                                                                                                                                    Randy

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Randy,

3 x 22" Lg's.

I gotta say, I'm a bit miffed at the moment.

I been getting some emails asking questions and not being very polite. The suggestion is that I am faking the results I am posting on these forums for the i7.

For Pete's sake, why would I do such a thing.

I don't care if the rest of the world is using XT's.

I have taken my time to post here in the interest of all flight simmers.

I have no connection to any commercial enterprises associated in flight simming, in actual fact I am retired.

I've been reluctant to post in these forums for a while and now that I have, I'm probably regretting it.

Frank

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Sorry to hear you're getting a hard time from some, Frank. I appreciate the information you give us and support fully the continuation of your posts. Our lives and pleasure in our pastimes should not be held to ransom by an ignorant few, but given it takes all types these days, I try to remember some sage advice by someone older and wiser - he used to say "don't even bother ignoring the d'heads!!"  ;)  Dunno if this helps, but you've got my vote as a square shooter!!!!! :)

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Frank,

  I think all forums can get pretty nasty at times. I remember the first time I ever posted about MSFS and how I used to play it on a Commodore 64 and someone wrote a furious thread and called me a liar. Come to find out he was not even born yet when flight sim started out as SubLogic. I first found Orbx and bought the scenery and then their forums and found your post about the i7 build and decided that if I was going to do a build...which I desperately needed.....I was not going to sink one dollar into older tech that is on the down hill slide. Not that there is anything wrong with that but I am only out 1200 US dollars for a nice i7 920 build with 6 gig of Corsair ram. It would have cost me around 800 to do a Q6600 build and I just could not see doing that. The P6 m/b will hold.....at least I think....several of the not yet released i7 chips in the next couple of years. So my thinking is just buy a new cpu and gpu and I am upgraded without too much invested for the next FS... version...hopefully. I have tried to read all I can about the i7 and your post and some others helped me make up my mind. I fully expect to get smooth flying with sharp detail. That is one of the things I notice in your pics is the detail and sharpness. I don't really care what the frame counter says. On this old P4 I have noticed FSX can be smooth and the FPS read 12. A lot of people do not believe that but it is so.....but I do get blurreis as the cpu just cannot keep up. I also only fly GA. I have a SR22 that I cannot use at all on this machine...probably because of the instrumentation. Am anxiously wanting to get in the boxes and start my build. I hope it goes as smooth as yours and others I read about. Every review so far of people who used a P6 m/b says their build came out great. I hope mine does also.

                                                                                                                            Regards

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I gotta say, I'm a bit miffed at the moment.

I been getting some emails asking questions and not being very polite.

I've been reluctant to post in these forums for a while and now that I have, I'm probably regretting it.

I really cannot understand why anyone would attack you personally over your posts.

I have found it extremely helpful in deciding whether to just upgrade my CPU for a quad or go for broke and upgrade to the i7.

Please do not stop posting because of a few idiots.

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Hi Frank,

Have been following your detailed posts with much interest. I am sitting here looking at all my hardware which is almost identical to your system.

I just picked up the 12gig of Ram yesterday. I will be running 6 x 320gig wd HDD in 3banks of 2 in Raid 0, with the OS and FSX on dedicated drives.

I also have 3 Maxtor External 640gig HDD which I will use to Mirror Backup every week, a system I have employed ever since I had a total HDD failure many years ago.

I would just ignore the type of Emails you mentioned, I have learn't over the years that Forums seem to always have that very very small collection of sad individuals.

If you have no objection, I would like to Email you as I start building, seeing that you have your System up and running.

Cheers,

John W

AU Blue:  6065    AU Gold:  6065  AU YMML:  10811  AU YPJT 13721

AU Green:  12237  AU Red:  13383  AU YSCH:  13174

Posted Image      Posted Image

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Hi Frank,

First, thanks for posting about your new system, I for one am about to upgrade also, and I've been trying trying to find out about as much as possible about the i7 chips as well, the #$%^& anyone who's bad mouthing you, let it run off your back. I'm also wondering, did you try running the sim with just one GPU and check what you get? And are you applying the autogen & tree tweak, or is the a straight default cfg.

Thanks, for posting I'm looking forward to your future postings on your system.

ed

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I gotta say, I'm a bit miffed at the moment.

..........................

Frank

Well I have been very interested in your results. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

Regards

Tufnel

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I too have been keenly following your posts on you new system. I very much like your detailed comments and in depth info. As the i7  so new, the kind of info you are providing is invaluable to the FSX crowd. I have seen several postinggs and some customer reviews around the 'net remarking at how well the i7 performs with games and graphics, but NONE of them even mention FSX. You postings here are probably VERY imformative to those in the market for an upgrade. I say, keep up the good work and also keep on enjoying that new system build of yours.:)

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Hi Frank

Congrates on your new system.

I too am about to embark on an upgrade to the new i7 CPU, always good to have someone take the plunge

and provide feed back to us.

The Guru3d web sight did some testing between the QX9770 Extreme, i7 920 & i7 965 Extreme, i was quite

impressed to see that even the i7 920 out performed a now $2200.00AU priced QX9770 Extreme in most cases.

680i EVGA MoBo

150 WD Raptor 10K

GTX 260

E6700 @ 3.2

4G Crucial Ballstix (Tracer)

750W Silversone PS

CM Stacker Case

64 Bit Vista Home Premium

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With your AI Frank. FSX + DX10 = no AI. For some reason DX10 hates the AI aircraft and causes them not to display at all, i just noticed in your screens that you have it checked.

Also, set your FPS limiter to unlimited and it should bump up the FPS count by quite a few.

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Sorry to hear that you are receiving rude emails.  Rest assurred, most people here appreciate you taking the time to show screenshots and talking about your experiencing with the i7 chip.  Anyway, keep them coming as I'm sure we will continue to have more questions.  Either way, just be happy with your new kit and enjoy it! 

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I been getting some emails asking questions and not being very polite. The suggestion is that I am faking the results I am posting on these forums for the i7.

Frank, don't care about that! I would appreciate if you could report back after you've added the additional memory. I think the performance might be far from optimal when you run on dual channel and not on tripple channel.

Ulf B

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Frank,

people that send such kind of PM's are probably a wee bit jealous of your system or retarded, so tell 'm to stuff themselves, and in case of, let me know who the pricks are and we as Admin Team will deal with 'm.

And please continue posting your findings with the new system as we all are very much interrested in hearing all about it ! :)

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Cool rig mate. However seeing your in Full screen I reckon you could unlock those Framerates and set it to unlimited!

Would love to see with those settings what FPS you get with the i7 Core.

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Frank,

  Got my system in and am working with it. Please forgive spelling...it is 3:30 am here and I have been at this way too long but I have a strange problem. My system is the i7 920 P6 Deluxe....6gig tri channel ram 1600...two 5oo gig hdd...one dedicated to FSX. Love this CPU. It is not the end all but it does great things. I have only attempted a liitle oc but went back to normal. I got it to run stable at 3.2 ghz. Just fooling around with that a litle. My problem is when I set FPS to unlimited there are times that it will be going along at 60 FPS and start jumping to 160 or 260 and back down to 6o FPS very quickly. When it does that it looks like stop and go. If I set FPS to a fixed number it stays there smooth...ie...such as 30 FPs at YMLL and all is well. Scenery is sharp and clear when FPS is locked and unlimited but at unlimited I get such huge swings you can't fly. I have never seen or heard of that on any system. FPS going over 200 only for a brief second is strange and then just as fast back down to 6o and back up....it drives one crazy. Of course I am glad I can fly at 30 of the few places I have tried so far....evn in big cities...not new York or Tokyo though. Any thoughts....Sure do love this m/b..all went well right out of package. Do wish this chip would make more use of all four cores though.

                                                                                                              Regards,

                                                                                                                    Randy

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Hello Everyone,

I haven't been around for a while.

Went to Sydney to see the last round of the V8 Supercars and ended up on an operating room table.

It was all very scarey, but looks like I'm ok.

Just got back home yesterday and am recovering, so will have some time for my passion again.

First night behind the yoke for a long while, so will give the old i7 a little stir up.

Frank

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We missed you Frank - welcome back!  There is a review in next? month's Atomic (already on news stands) on the "budget" i7 920 ($540 AUD) which apparently has huge OC potential. All good news by the sound of it and they mention how well it does on multithreaded games - is FSX multithreaded?  8)

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I did a flight last night, YBBN to YSSY and had a little play with settings.

I had some interesting outcomes and took some nice piccys as well, so I'll try and get some time today and put up the results.

Thanx for the kind words, also,

Frank

P.S. God, I missed my flight sim for those few weeks

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