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OMG! All these years...running overclocked CPU and Memory....was in fact HINDERING system (graphical performance)...OMG!


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The back ground story:

 

My CPU is a i7-975 Extreme four core model.   Its native Ghz is at 3.73 GHz.   For years...well, pretty much ever since I purchased and installed it, I had over-clocked this CPU to run at 4.4 Ghz.  I also boosted my memory two classifications in speed, (I can't remember now...but I did...) so...both CPU and System Memory was over-clocked.

 

Ok...operated my system like that for the sole purpose of harvesting as many FPS I could, over every flight sim I owned.  For years...

 

For about a year...I have been having some issues with after shutting down the computer,  a BAD SYSTEM CONFIG file...that forced me to recover by two means.   We all know that if you overclock your CPU or Memory,  this can cause file corruption being written back to the system, when W10 or whatever...closes down running programs, as well as its own code integrity.  I also believe, that as components age...more of that will occur. There are so many running cycles that any form of computer chips and modules can run before mean-time-failure.

 

So...after YEARS of running my CPU at 4.4....I decided it was time to set my BIOS back to Optimized (recommended by Dell) Config.  I did that this afternoon, and booted, ready to accept any lesser FPS performance (or whatever 'degradation of performance' running with a slower CPU clock speed and memory speed would cause.  I thought...it is, what it is...and I don't want to be hassled with any more 'cross your fingers and pass the ammunition' system start-ups.

 

I thought I would see about a 5 or more loss of FPS performance across my flight sims...and I ONLY overclocked my system FOR THEM...not for any other use of my system....

 

Well...if I wasn't sitting down, after the FPS meter came up on MSFS...if I wasn't sitting down friends, I would have keeled over and have fallen down!!!!!!!!

 

Damn!   WTH!?!??!?!?!??!    Not only, did I gain....what?!?!?!?!?!??!   what!?!?!??!!  OMG!......2 FPS, at my Intel default 3.73 GHz...CPU speed...but, GET THIS....I have always had a very mild...slight animation stutter, at taxi...especially  with MSFS at full Ultra.   The cost of doing business...

 

This afternoon...OMG!.......not stutter...OF ANY KIND...NOTHING....and no loss of FPS at all...in fact...gained 1-3 FPS!!!!!!!!!  Now this is running my system at BIOS default...and the CPU and my Memory at their published DEFAULT settings....

 

If you could have seen my face...and my jaw drop,  as I taxied out to take off....took off in the Turbo Bonny....panned around...and animation as smooth as silk, the best performance I have ever seen out of my system,  and you must remember, the first thing I did...was to boost my CPU and Memory those many years ago.   So...the overclock (is the best) myth is BUSTED...don't believe for a second that you are ACTUALLY getting 'hotter' graphical performance, ONLY because you are running that CPU harder...stressed...same for Memory if you have that tapped out as well.   For myself...I was getting stutters...this...that...and ALWAYS...ALWAYS thought it was the programs....the sims...stressing my system (even overclocked) showing up.   NO SIR....I see for myself...that I was stressing my CPU...and Memory...and it was THAT...overclocking the chips, that in fact were causing stutters, degraded performance, for now...(and I still can't believe it....)  I am seeing the best animation flight...animation smoothness,  NO LOSS of FPS....and all at factory specified clock speeds...both the CPU and System Memory!!!!!!!!

 

So...still totally stunned by this revelation.....and now will stay with rated Intel speeds for the CPU...(no more over-clock anything!) and will certainly take this knowledge into consideration for my next system. I will part out my CPU and Memory,  only with the intention of not applying any form of over-clock to those parts.  I have seen the 'light'....

 

Wow...wow...and wow....!

 

Later...back to the best MSFS performance I have seen since buying it...and (what a laugh on me...!)  at rated CPU/Memory running speeds...not in an over-clock!

 

Cheers!

 

Edited by Orbx Flyer
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Just ended my 'non system overclock'  MSFS flight...WOW!

 

Now, will be running every flight sim I own...to test out how they will deliver with no overclock!

 

Yep, am I excited at this revelation!

 

Wow....:)

 

Now (slapping hands together...),  onto P3D v4.5,  5.1,  XP11 and AS2!

 

Let's see what they reveal....non overclocked!  

 

Later....

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I am absolutely STUNNED this afternoon, folks...

 

I just dropped out of P3D v5.1...with no loss of FPS of any kind...but the only reported loss, is animation stutter.   Too bad, I had not done this, or thought to do this, years ago!  Any and all animation stutter,  micro, or pretty announced,...was in fact, due to an overclocked system.   I'm still in disbelief...

 

P3D v5.1 is running so smooth....no jerk, no micro stutter....and full right, all the way!   I do NOT need to replace my present CPU, or GPU.   I needed to drop my system to rated, CPU and Memory speeds that are approved by the O.E.M.  Too bad, I only 'discovered' that this afternoon....yes, too bad!

 

Wow...

 

 

Edited by Orbx Flyer
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I had a similar experience with an overclock on my 4790K. Set it back to standard settings and got better performance in P3Dv4.5. Could have been an error in voltage (it was not overheating though). I had it at 4.8 Ghz and now running nicely at 4 with 4.4 turbo. My nVidia 1660 Super is factory overclocked and seems to be fine. Never OC'd ram.

 

Bernie

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9 hours ago, BernieFlyer said:

I had a similar experience with an overclock on my 4790K. Set it back to standard settings and got better performance in P3Dv4.5. Could have been an error in voltage (it was not overheating though). I had it at 4.8 Ghz and now running nicely at 4 with 4.4 turbo. My nVidia 1660 Super is factory overclocked and seems to be fine. Never OC'd ram.

 

Bernie

My overclocks never overheated either...but I have seen just fabulous performance with all my sims, since setting all (CPU and System Memory) to their O.E.M. default GHz speeds.  Keeping now at default. :)

Edited by Orbx Flyer
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If you have a "slow day" sometime you might want to redo the OC on the CPU and leave the RAM at it's default speed. Sometimes even a moderate RAM OC will give really funny results. Nothing will be lost, you can always go back to where you are now. Just a thought.

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2 hours ago, Maurizio Giorgi said:

I have never overclocked my cpu, nor my gpu :)

 

There are legions of flight simmers who have and do.   I was one of 'em.   Most do it, for the sole purpose of 'squeezing' out as many FPS they can, when running 'x' sim.  The 'great laugh' I have enjoyed this week, was seeing that I was getting the best FPS across all my sims, at rated O.E.M running frequencies for both items that I had overclocked, namely, the CPU and System RAM.   So...it's been pretty insane, this past week....in MSFS where I was getting 18-27 FPS with an overclocked system, I am now getting with the same settings, the same nVidia driver, 35-40 mean average.   With the latest P3D v5.1 HF3, (just released) I am getting with the same settings, what once was 28-32/35 FPS,  am now getting 45-62 (even with E.A. clicked on) FPS.  Stressing the CPU, running the fab hotter than it should be (even though it never hit the danger zone), and probably the same for my three RAM sticks...I was in fact all these years (kicking myself daily in the back-side...with a large boot...) having degraded system performance.  The lesson I learned out of this past week, is that I will part out my next system, with a CPU that will give me what Ghz speed I would wish for/want , but at native BIOS settings.  Same for the System RAM and whatever GPU I will match in the next system.  I am 'retired' from overclocking any component...and you are most likely going to enjoy longevity with your system, as it has always been run under design spec.   

Signed,

 

A previous Over-Clocker,  now on the wagon....lol!

Edited by Orbx Flyer
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5 hours ago, W2DR said:

If you have a "slow day" sometime you might want to redo the OC on the CPU and leave the RAM at it's default speed. Sometimes even a moderate RAM OC will give really funny results. Nothing will be lost, you can always go back to where you are now. Just a thought.

Right W2DR, quite easy to make a few BIOS clicks...but if you read my latest post,  I am getting just INSANE FPS and smooth animation performance at O.E.M. rated BIOS settings.  So...happy to just keep it all 'stock'!!!!   This afternoon, I was running my i7-975 Extreme (4 core)/EVGA FTW 1070 8 Gig powering the latest P3D v5.1 HOTFIX, and was getting that high 46 FPS (with peak spikes to 62), I was posting about.   I had E.A. on...had a flight plan in P3D Active Sky....and the clouds were just as good as MSFS.  In fact, I really started comparing both ground textures at the FL's..and truly, with Orbx Global under me at FL180 in P3D v5.1 (E.A.),  I didn't see much of a difference between MSFS's Cloud at FL180, and Orbx Global at the same.   If you are going to run around at 3,500 or less...MSFS all the way!   If in the FL's...I'm personally going to fire up P3D v5.1 (E.A.) so I can run every fantastic 3rP sled I own...and have no CTD's..no wonky operation,  all good...all professional.  The best of both worlds now...and at simply stunning FPS output, for both sims.  I have to try XP11 later today...and see what the FPS shows in that sim.  It usually mimicked the P3D version I had at the time...but...with my years-long overclock in place.  Let's see what I get, at O.E.M. Ghz... :)

 

 

Edited by Orbx Flyer
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17 hours ago, Orbx Flyer said:

There are legions of flight simmers who have and do.   I was one of 'em.   Most do it, for the sole purpose of 'squeezing' out as many FPS they can, when running 'x' sim.  The 'great laugh' I have enjoyed this week, was seeing that I was getting the best FPS across all my sims, at rated O.E.M running frequencies for both items that I had overclocked, namely, the CPU and System RAM.   So...it's been pretty insane, this past week....in MSFS where I was getting 18-27 FPS with an overclocked system, I am now getting with the same settings, the same nVidia driver, 35-40 mean average.   With the latest P3D v5.1 HF3, (just released) I am getting with the same settings, what once was 28-32/35 FPS,  am now getting 45-62 (even with E.A. clicked on) FPS.  Stressing the CPU, running the fab hotter than it should be (even though it never hit the danger zone), and probably the same for my three RAM sticks...I was in fact all these years (kicking myself daily in the back-side...with a large boot...) having degraded system performance.  The lesson I learned out of this past week, is that I will part out my next system, with a CPU that will give me what Ghz speed I would wish for/want , but at native BIOS settings.  Same for the System RAM and whatever GPU I will match in the next system.  I am 'retired' from overclocking any component...and you are most likely going to enjoy longevity with your system, as it has always been run under design spec.   

Signed,

 

A previous Over-Clocker,  now on the wagon....lol!

 

You got perfectly the reasons because i didn't overclock. And there is also another reason, this from a developer view. You have to develop your software so to exploit as more as you can the platform, not to oblige people to overclock trying to get better performances. On a same platform, you see differences between addons, so this means that you can develop well, to get the right performances. On the hardware point of view, for sure it's true that your machine will last much more without to overclock it, and will be more stable as well. So with a default powerful machine you should go well and you save a lot of power energy getting better performances as you experimented. In the time stressed CPU or GPU start to have problems.

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14 minutes ago, Maurizio Giorgi said:

 

You got perfectly the reasons because i didn't overclock. And there is also another reason, this from a developer view. You have to develop your software so to exploit as more as you can the platform, not to oblige people to overclock trying to get better performances. On a same platform, you see differences between addons, so this means that you can develop well, to get the right performances. On the hardware point of view, for sure it's true that your machine will last much more without to overclock it, and will be more stable as well. So with a default powerful machine you should go well and you save a lot of power energy getting better performances as you experimented. In the time stressed CPU or GPU start to have problems.

I totally concur...so will be getting the highest CPU Ghz/Thread Count I can afford, or wish to afford, and the same now for the other two bad boys...GPU and Memory.  No more overclocking now, or into the future.  All these years, where I thought I was garnering (for free...WHAT A LAUGH ON ME!!!!!) greater FPS than what running the CPU at manufacturer's rated speed, and in fact...was cutting nearly HALF of what my system could have offered me.  I am so kicking myself right now!  I'm getting just over 60 FPS peak in P3D and XP11.  In MSFS at Ultra, 45-47.  No complaints there!   Nope...no more overclocking now, or on any future hardware. Nope....

 

Cheers,

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Hello,

 

my own unscientific view is that the results of most overclocking is really not

discernible in a flight simulator and a benchmark is required to see the difference. 

 

To use overclocking to chase a benchmark, or a high frame  rate, very often results

in a very small return in exchange for a high degree of stress on the PC hardware.

 

Much of the folklore around this subject is based on historical problems, from the days

when the simulator demanded more from the hardware than even the best hardware 

could provide.

 

This is no longer the case, unless of course, the hardware is not up to the task because its

specification was too low for the intended task.

 

In my unscientific view, the best way by far is to purchase the hardware that the simulator

requires and let it run at the speeds at which it was designed to operate.

 

If one really must overclock, Intel overclocking can be tried with the extraordinarily useful

Intel Extreme Tuning Utility.

It takes the need for advanced knowledge and expertise out of the equation but still allows

settings that the expert will understand and will not allow damaging settings.

 

 

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10 hours ago, yanlaoge said:

Why default configuration is better than overclocking? Any science behind it?

The only 'science' I have applied, is my own eyes....and almost double the FPS performance across all my sims.  Also...no more stutter...the pause, move, pause, move of the animation of the plane in flight over terrain.  I'm truly not trying to convert anybody...just reported an amazing development on and the use of my system. For myself...from now until dust...I'll purchase a CPU with the native GHz that I would LIKE to own...as well as the Memory Mhz and GPU (whatever).  I was astounded, and still am...with the largest smile on my face, with each firing up of my sims.  Cheers!

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There is a reason why the hardware has a 'default'. That's what it was designed for, and more importantly, tested at. For example, I chose DDR4-3000 memory for my recent build, not because it's cheaper than DDR4-3600 (it's not), but because there is a trade-off of clock speed against latency, and the lower-latency 3000 outperformed the 'faster' memory in many real-world tests. I could overclock it to higher numbers, but then I'd throw away that advantage and probably build-in a load of instability. If you look closely at memory modules, you will find that many of them are physically the same, but rated with different latency and timings. You can choose to buy DDR4-3600 that's tested and rated at that speed, or save literally pennies and overclock DDR4-3000 to give you the same speed and timings but without the assurance of stability. In fact at today's price you would save exactly nothing. They are the same price.

 

I've always built my systems with the best processor and memory I could afford, with a motherboard to support it. But I never overclock. My current processor is unlocked but will never be overclocked. The tiny gains are not worth the instability, as you have now discovered. In flight-simming, the obsession with FPS is particularly fatuous. Lock it at 30FPS, give the processor and GPU a chance to buffer up, and enjoy the smoothness. For what it's worth, P3D (and apparently MSFS2020) are extremely CPU heavy. I'm only using my old Nvidia 1060 6GB graphics card in 1080p at the moment (blew the budget on the processor and MOBO - waiting for Black Friday), and with the right (wrong?) combination of sliders to the right I can easily max my 10th Gen Core i7 10700K out before I run out of VRAM. The CPU is trying to plot the location of the entire world and everything in it, and calculate the performance of an aeroplane in flight AND talk to 4 FIP gauges and Air Manager, while the GPU gets to draw a few trees, clouds and shadows on a little monitor. The slightest instability in the CPU will show as a stutter, especially if you are trying to draw every frame there is.

 

My tuppence worth is that the people who made the hardware are a lot cleverer than me, and probably knew what they were doing. If I start buggering about with it, all I'm ever likely to do is make it worse. Plug it in, leave it alone. Fly.

Edited by John Roberts
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Interesting topic.

 

Without overclocking my ancient i5 2500k GPU (1070 8GB GPU) to 4.3 Ghz I would be screwed. The "k" series was designed to be overclocked, its motherboards even came with oc software included. Out of the box these CPUs are clocked to 3.2 Ghz.

 

After reading this topic I did some testing without overclocking yesterday. For this purpose I even fired up XP11 again, the first time after installing MSFS. The results of running my sys without oc were slide shows, in XP11 as well as in MSFS. With oc I can achieve more than decent performance in both sims.

 

So my way to go is definitely with oc.

 

Edited by wolfko
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Hello,

I would agree that overclocking a k series CPU is indeed not difficult, especially using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility.

I have mine slightly overclocked, so that it turbos to 4.9.instead of 4.5.

Overclocking the rest of the machine is really the more complicated part and where it is easy to go too far, as mentioned,

in exchange for very little return. 

 

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I personally talked with the MSI support, asking them what about the overclock practice. They replied me that my machine is designed to be overclocked at 4.2 GHz all the time, instead to use the turbo only when needed. I can do that simply pressing the "dragon button" and the machine automatically go on the OC mode. This is absolutely safe, they told me, there isn't the risk to overheat. Overclocking to higher values makes the machine more unstable and there is a risk to damage some component inside.

It's true that the k series are designed to be overclocked, but there is always a risk. And performances, when you are anyway up to 4 GHz, are pretty the same. 4,2 or 4,5 doesn't make a huge difference. So here's because a default powerful machine is the best way. I choosed MSI because it offers the feature to overclock slightly the machine just with one button, i find it a great feature.

 

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The latest version , has killed off any hope I can run the sim at Full Ultra...so much better rendering,  so much more content...has done my poor 8 year old system in....

Better than even RTM!  Not even the chance of a complaint...

 

Black Friday...knock-knock...

 

 

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