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Hi all, well after waiting for what seems years with no sim 2020 has finally arrived. I waited till the dust settled then ordered a hard copy, loaded it up ( took ages ) then bugger, my graphics card won't run anything better than a slide show. My rig is the recommended spec except for the card - Min GTX 770 Recommended GTX 970, mine is a GTX 750. I am going to purchase a GTX 1650S. Any thoughts?

 

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While 750 and 770 are only 20 numbers apart, there is a huge difference between the two cards.  I learned this recently also when my gtx 745 can't even get msfs to the flight configuration screen without a ctd.

I've chosen to stick with what I have working reasonably with my pc (P3D4)

 

I find this website useful to compare GPUs.

https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-770-vs-Nvidia-GTX-750/2174vs3162

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Don't buy a card which can run MSFS2020 now, but also in the future, when DX12 is implemented for instance.

DX12 will use a lot of VRAM. When I see the VRAM usage of P3D v5 (DX12), then I think MSFS2020 will need much more given the higher texture resolutions and GPU dependent effects.

Just a thought.

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4 hours ago, Iain Emms said:

Got a RTX 2080 runs no problem

 

3 hours ago, wolfko said:

Even my GTX 1070 8GB runs without any problem

 

They surely will do now but also in the future when MSFS2020 evolves?

8 GB is the absolute minimum as I've seen with P3D v5 (DX12).

Given that MSFS2020 is far more enhanced graphical wise, I guess it will exceed 8GB when DX12 is implemented.

Again, just a thought.

 

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3070 is best performance/cost option in my opinion. I’m into flightsimming long enough to have learned that sims tend to need most performance out of the system, and hardware catches up ca. 2 years after release of the game.

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1 hour ago, bvdboomen said:

 

 

They surely will do now but also in the future when MSFS2020 evolves?

8 GB is the absolute minimum as I've seen with P3D v5 (DX12).

Given that MSFS2020 is far more enhanced graphical wise, I guess it will exceed 8GB when DX12 is implemented.

Again, just a thought.

 

 

Maybe, but why should I bother now? When DX12 is released, I will see if my card can handle it. If it can, all is fine. If it can't I will have 2 options. Either I buy a new card or I stay with my current one and DX11, because I am more than satisfied what MSFS is currently providing graphically with DX11 and my GTX 1070. 

And I definitely will not make a decision now but only then.

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If you can, wait for a few weeks until after the next gen of AMD GPUs (RX 6000-series) are released in 7 days' time and the Nvidia 3070 launches in 8 days.
Even if you don't want an AMD card or the new Nvidia ones, they should force downward pressure on prices of older GPUs.

Like some have already said, 8 GB of VRAM is the absolute minimum you should be aiming for.

I personally wouldn't buy a GTX 1000-series GPU if you want to hold onto it for a few years for MSFS simming. The minimum requirements are only going to get higher as the product is developed further. You'll have plenty of options as of the end of next week!

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14 minutes ago, PiotrMKG said:

@F737NG there aren’t many options of video cards with 8GB+ VRAM. 2080ti, 3080, 3090, RX6000 and probably 3070 super(16GB) and 3080 super(20GB) or whatever nvidia will name it.


The RX 6000-series has 3 cards >8GB VRAM: RX 6700 XT / RX 6800 XT / RX 6900 XT ("Big Navi" / "Navi 2").
And for money-no-object types, there are also the Nvidia Titan and Titan RTX cards to consider.

Combined with the Nvidia 2080 Ti, 3080 and 3090, that's at least 8 GPUs to look at already, with allegedly another 2 (the 3070 and 3080 refreshes) to come in December.  I'd consider 10 GPUs with above 8GB of memory as plenty of options.

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6 minutes ago, F737NG said:

And for money-no-object types, there are also the Nvidia Titan and Titan RTX cards to consider.

Those types usually don’t ask questions what to buy. They just sort price high to low and buy whatever is on top ;) 

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19 hours ago, Tassie said:

Hi all, well after waiting for what seems years with no sim 2020 has finally arrived. I waited till the dust settled then ordered a hard copy, loaded it up ( took ages ) then bugger, my graphics card won't run anything better than a slide show. My rig is the recommended spec except for the card - Min GTX 770 Recommended GTX 970, mine is a GTX 750. I am going to purchase a GTX 1650S. Any thoughts?

 

 

I found this is a really helpful article and the benchmarks based upon my particular situation (I have a Nvidia RTX 2060 Super 8GB)  appear to be very reliable.

 

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/microsoft-flight-simulator-(2020)-pc-graphics-performance-benchmark-review,1.html

 

The biggest question though is what screen resolution are you planning on using?

 

Most cards will give good results at 1080p, but as the rendering resolution increases beyond that the GPU requirement increases significantly.  That said, even for 1080p , if your finances allow, I would go with a 8GB card.

 

MS2020 is slated to move to DX12 relatively soon, and because it is a lower level API than DX11 , the amount of VRAM required is greater even though it offers significantly better performance than DX11.

 

Hope this is of some help

Cheers

Pete

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I would strongly advise a GPU with +8GB vram preferably more than 8GB although that is limiting your choice. I found a 1080Ti for £400 with 11GB vram on Ebay. Works great. MSFS chooses Ultra as my default but i tend to then Customise those settings. I see no need for 2048 resolution ground shadows for example so i turn those and some other settings down.

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A tip: run MSFS in fullscreen mode but in a non focussed window. This will boost your performance more than any high end graphics card.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure, this is a bug, but a very friendly one.;)

Edited by wolfko
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22 hours ago, wolfko said:

A tip: run MSFS in fullscreen mode but in a non focussed window. This will boost your performance more than any high end graphics card.

 

Edit: I'm pretty sure, this is a bug, but a very friendly one.;)

What do you mean by " non focussed window " ?

Edited by Tassie
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2 hours ago, Tassie said:

What do you mean by " non focussed window " ?

 

26 minutes ago, Dadtom65 said:

I would like to know what that is as well. Derek.

 

I'll explain in more detail once I'm at home.

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On 10/22/2020 at 11:08 AM, mikee said:

I got a Gtx 1080ti 11.5 ram ! Runs more than perfect  (Everything Ultra) !

Old Card but a great One :)

Yes agreed and my old 1080ti slightly overclocked is still holding up surprisingly well although I have to go easy on the sliders when using VR in P3D for instance.

Have delayed ordering a new desktop until next year as a result and VR is the only reason for upgrading.

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Hmm, "old" is a relative term and one that I am sure makes nvidia smile when they see it

used about a 1080 ti.

A quality graphics card remains so, whether there is a newer and twice as expensive

version of it or not, or even an Out Of Stock (OOS, a new acronym for the 3000 series):) version newer than that.

At present, "VR" seems to be also new and very expensive but there are Titan cards

available to those for whom price is no object.

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5 hours ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hmm, "old" is a relative term and one that I am sure makes nvidia smile when they see it

used about a 1080 ti.

A quality graphics card remains so, whether there is a newer and twice as expensive

version of it or not, or even an Out Of Stock (OOS, a new acronym for the 3000 series):) version newer than that.

At present, "VR" seems to be also new and very expensive but there are Titan cards

available to those for whom price is no object.

 

"A quality graphics card remains so," Truer words have never been spoken:)

 

With the implementation of DX12 for MS2020 I am hopeful from Asobo/MS comments that a number of items (such as the  following) will be implemented in an update -

Ray-traced area light shadows, Ray-traced reflections, Ray-traced ambient occlusion and Cinematic depth of field (DOF).

 

The changes with respect to shadows/RT ambient occlusion will be especially welcome because of the current issues with respect to image quality verses performance.

 

Ray tracing in itself is not new (it has been used in hollywood films for many years), but doing it in real time is the current graphics challenge. As implemented by hollywood  , ray tracing was done offline are large render farms. The images are spectacular - but I remember reading that for the Avengers movie, often single scenes would require upwards of a day of computer time to complete.

 

The challenge is that using conventional approaches,  very large number or rays are required to bring digital noise levels to acceptable levels . In this last year , Nvidia has developed an AI based approach to denoising which offers spectacular improvement in real time processing by drastically reducing the number of rays used,  while achieving excellent image quality

 

It used to be that only the RTX series of cards (2000 series and now the 3000 series) were able to do real time ray tracing.

 

However last year Nvidia extended the capability (with the latest game ready drivers to many older cards). This is not an exhaustive list but to the best of my knowledge, the following cards will also do ray tracing through the latest drivers

 

GeForce GTX 1660 Ti

GeForce GTX 1660

Nvidia Titan Xp (2017)

Nvidia Titan X (2016)

GeForce GTX 1080 Ti

GeForce GTX 1080

GeForce GTX 1070 Ti

GeForce GTX 1070

GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

 

However, results will be quite variable on these cards due to the nature of the beast. Real time ray tracing is a serious performance load on a non RTX gpu and how good the image looks is a direct correlation to the number of rays cast.  In other words, more rays looks much better, but more rays will easily bring one of these cards to its knees.

 

This is one of my "hobby" areas and I have  used it in a  Vulkan api game which running on an RTX card (but not using the special Turing cores).

Just to illustrate what I mean by a serious performance load using ray tracing on a "conventional" gpu using the tensor cores only, I can easily change a fps of 112 to 5 just depending on how I want things to look. I have to admit it looks spectacular, but ....:rolleyes:

 

So you may have to decide which potential item is most important to you and select that one, rather than being able to use all options. It really depends on how this will be implemented by Asobo

 

This is not true for the RTX series because with DX12 all ray tracing is done on special cores called Turing cores. Based upon my experience with another DX12 game I have which features full ray tracing, there is no performance hit at all with ray tracing on/off (ray tracing is done by the Turing cores , not the conventional ones as in my previous example) 

 

At the present time, running MS2020 with DX11 on a RTX card, means that all the Turing cores are sitting idle and are unused. So using ray tracing on a RTX card doesn't affect current performance as the ray tracing effects are handled by the Turing cores.

 

Cheers

Pete

Edited by renault
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Always plan for the future. I went overkil 4 years ago with my graphics card and it still works well. Obviously not as good as the latest and best but still very good. Invest in a card that is maybe one step under the best and you will be right for a few years of exciting sim flights

 

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2 hours ago, aero-3fsx said:

Always plan for the future. I went overkil 4 years ago with my graphics card and it still works well. Obviously not as good as the latest and best but still very good. Invest in a card that is maybe one step under the best and you will be right for a few years of exciting sim flights

 

I love my Titan's also , no plans right now for a upgrade .

 

John

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On 10/23/2020 at 9:23 AM, Tassie said:

What do you mean by " non focussed window " ?

 

On 10/23/2020 at 11:00 AM, Dadtom65 said:

I would like to know what that is as well. Derek.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 11:29 AM, wolfko said:

 

 

 

I'll explain in more detail once I'm at home.

 

 

Okay guys, here it is how to use MSFS in an “unfocussed” window to improve performance.

 

An unfocussed window is what I had always called inactive window in the past, but I have learned on the internet, that it is actually called unfocussed window.

 

So step by step, this will work no matter if you use MSFS in full screen or in windowed mode.

 

1) Open a window with any programme, app or anything else. I prefer to open the Task Manager (why see under tips)

 

2) Shrink this window as small as possible (see in screenshot #2 how small I have made my task manager window). Beware, with shrinking I do not mean minimizing.

 

3) Place this very small window anywhere on your desktop, where it won’t bother you (it will be in front of your MSFS when focussed). I would suggest to place it into any of the corners of your screen.

 

4) Start MSFS and begin your flight, your screen will look something like this:

67475325_NonFocussedWindow.thumb.jpg.46cf181511638816c082f77493366fc4.jpg

 

 

5) Then press “alt+tab” to bring the originally created small window (e.g. the Task Manager) into the foreground. Your screen now will look something like this:

737979955_FocussedWindow.thumb.jpg.f33d9e59bc3140af8ca95b9639b56e85.jpg

 

This small window will now be the focussed (active) window, whereas MSFS will run in an unfocussed window. Immediately when the small window is in the foreground you will experience a performance boost, less stutters and more smoothness.

Of course this effect will be more noticeable the worse the performance was before you put MSFS into an unfocussed window.

 

6) Important: when MSFS is running in an unfocussed window, an external yoke, a joystick, a throttle  quadrant with all their buttons will be perfectly ready to use (I have no other peripherals, but assume they will also work). Keyboard and mouse won’t be applicable though. If you need them, you only have to press “alt+tab” again (or to click with you mouse anywhere on the screen) and MSFS will be in the focussed window again.

 

7) If you use MSFS in full screen mode you might want to get rid of the taskbar, which is visible when MSFS is running in an unfocussed window. Therefor you have to right-click on the taskbar, then left-click on taskbar settings, then activate “Automatically hide the taskbar in desktop mode”. Then it will only be visible as a fine white line at the bottom of your screen.

Of course you should do this before starting MSFS. You might want to leave it this way also when not simming. Otherwise you only have to deactivate “Automatically hide the taskbar in desktop mode” again.

 

Tips:

1) Since keyboard and mouse will not be working when MSFS is in an unfocussed window, I suggest to assign as many of the most important commands as possible to your yoke’s/joystick’s, throttle quadrant’s or other peripheral’s buttons.

 

2) I use the task manager to run in the small window, because it does not eat up many resources and for some reason its window can be made very small. You could e. g. also use the built in VR-map. You only have to undock it first and then shrink it. But for some reason the VR-ma-window cannot be made as small as the task manager’s.

 

When to use this little “trick”?

I use it when I realize a drop in performance or smoothness, e. g. when flying around in the Los Angeles area or when approaching a complex airport in a more complex aircraft. Actually I use it always during final approaches, when “fine-tuned” movements of the control surfaces are important. Something which can much better be achieved in a smooth and stutter-free flight with high FPS.

Actually you can use it always when you don’t need the keyboard or the mouse and when you are not bothered by the little window in the foreground.

 

I came over this accidently, when I experienced extreme stutters and performance drop (1 frame every 2 seconds) every 5 to 10 minutes before the release of the first patch. I switched to the task manager during one of those performance drops to see my CPU’s and GPU’s performances. But the moment I put the focus on the task manager those extreme stutters and FPS drops were immediately gone.

 

For me all this is quite strange. It has also been discovered by others and is documented on the internet. Some person suggested that this actually has nothing to do with MSFS but was a bug of Windows 10. Maybe some of the fellow forum users here will know more about it.

 

I have no idea, if this works with all systems, but give it a try. Maybe it will work also for you.

 

 

 

Edited by wolfko
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