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Condor

Intel i7 960 or i7 980X

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I'm looking to upgrade my PC and was wondering whether the i7 980X is worth the money or should I buy the i7 960 for about $800.00 less. I understand the speed difference is not that much in the overall scheme of things. I'm not an overclocker so I'm wanting the best I can get for the money.

Thanks

Paul

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That $800 I suspect will buy you less than 10% extra fps, probably less.    Normally those chips are priced for studio production houses etc.

With the right motherboard you should be able to overclock using the inbuilt utility, mine has three steps and it runs sweet as on the third step, from 2.67 to 3.2GHz. 

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The 980X is certainly an amazing chip. There is a marked jump from even the 975 Extreme. Have a look around at some reviews that compare them and you'll see that the 980 is much faster. I think you'll get quite a significant performance boost over the 960. The quesiton is really whether spending 1500!!! for a processor is something you want to do! :o. If you were tossing up between the 960 and the 975 I'd suggest 960 for sure but the performance I believe certainly makes the 980X at least worthy of consideration if money is really that easy for you. I'm only saying what I'm saying because you specifically said that you're not much of an overclocker. Otherwise I'd say that you are crazy if your only goal is to get it purely for FSX and you had no need for it other than that. And people... correct me if I'm wrong obviously because I just started looking up reviews of the 980 and the very first review that popped up showed benchmarks that contradict my previous belief regarding the amazing boost in performance that the 980X has over the 975X although I'm positive it is much quicker in some respects where the jump makes you go :o.

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Why spend the extra money on the I7 960or the I7 980X???

If you can easily OC the I7 930 safely to 3.8 gh ;)

Spend the extra money on a good MB.Graphic card and memory.

That is what i did and Fsx is going super on my new rig.

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Yep my i7 930 is running at 4.2Ghz with no problems i dont really understand how to overclock so a proffesional outfit did mine for me.

cheers

Iain

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I have an i7-920, stock - not overclocked - and I am totally happy with it. Also have the nvidia 285 and win7-64. Drive is a 10000 rpm raptor. 6 gigs tripple ram.

Dave

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I too have the i920 not over-clocked with a nVidia 295 video card and am very happy with the performance - BTW I do not care about the FPS just how smooth the scenery is.

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To all of you saying their happy with their rig with an 920 - 930 or else stock or overclocked at what ever speed I belive you but just like me with my Q9650 don't tell me you would not buy the 980X with a new setup if you had the money for it ....it's like saying "well I'm happy with my 4 cylinder car so I don't want a corvette" .....??????......the RIDE is not the same at all...

Condor.... if you have the money GO for the 980X trust me on that....you can overclock this 6 core at 4.40Ghz easy on air....now set this baby up with a GTX 480 + ram's at 2000MHz and you got a winner......everybody (including myself)  will envy you cause you will be able to run FSX with everything maxed out with details you won't belive........to me it's simple ...there is NO overkill in the PC world (specially with FSX)......good luck.

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Guest AS355F

Why pay $1500 for 6 cores?

I bought an AMD 6 core for $350. I can do a hell of a lot with the $1150 I saved.

BTW it runs well enough to give me everything I need. I run YBBN maxed and it's as smooth as silk.

Each to their own but I believe paying huge amounts for processors is pointless, they churn out new ones so fast these days that the latest and greatest is only run of the mill 6 months on.

Bulldozer is the only thing upcoming that really interests me, if they can get 2 cores to run a single thread then that will be something to see, otherwise, meh.

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Well, I ended up getting the 980X ( I haven't overclocked it as yet) as well as the 480 and she's purring like a kitten right now. Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it ;)

Paul

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Why pay $1500 for 6 cores?

I bought an AMD 6 core for $350. I can do a hell of a lot with the $1150 I saved.

BTW it runs well enough to give me everything I need. I run YBBN maxed and it's as smooth as silk.

Each to their own but I believe paying huge amounts for processors is pointless, they churn out new ones so fast these days that the latest and greatest is only run of the mill 6 months on.

Bulldozer is the only thing upcoming that really interests me, if they can get 2 cores to run a single thread then that will be something to see, otherwise, meh.

$1,500.00 in Australia.....I understand Pete but here they sale for $999.00 with free shipping from www.newegg.com

Here is a good review on this baby, read it all and you'll understand why it is so good specially for FSX since FSX can use it's six core for terrain.....  http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i7-980x-review/19

Listen to this too as Phil is saying FSX can use a lot of sore 200 + 

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Well, I ended up getting the 980X ( I haven't overclocked it as yet) as well as the 480 and she's purring like a kitten right now. Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it ;)

Paul

Nice one Paul i hope it all gives you good service and im sure it will, For sure i would have got a 980X but could not afford one this time round in the next few weeks i will be adding a 480GTX  that will do till the next rebuild.

cheers

Iain

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Condor.... if you have the money GO for the 980X trust me on that....you can overclock this 6 core at 4.40Ghz easy on air....

I'd wait around for other people to start over clocking their 980X. The 32nm die isn't as heat tolerant as the 45nm or whatever we have on our 920s/930s etc... the new 32nm doesn't overclock anywhere near as well as the older tech. At least so I heard... congrats on the buy and although expensive... had I had the money I prob would have that chip myself.

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Condor.... if you have the money GO for the 980X trust me on that....you can overclock this 6 core at 4.40Ghz easy on air....

I'd wait around for other people to start over clocking their 980X. The 32nm die isn't as heat tolerant as the 45nm or whatever we have on our 920s/930s etc... the new 32nm doesn't overclock anywhere near as well as the older tech. At least so I heard... congrats on the buy and although expensive... had I had the money I prob would have that chip myself.

Look here for the overclocking of the 980X  http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i7-980x-review/7

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Read that review on the 980. Sounds like one interesting pice of hardware. I got my 920 6 months ago and it looked like good bang for the buck at that time plus its' rock solid over-clockability. I'm going to wathc comments on the 980 for a few months and if it works out without any inherrant problems I will probably get one.

Dave

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.....256 core machine  :o  and fsx could be made to use them !!          8)...except the power bill  :'(

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Congratulation on your 980x.

But i am asking myself ???

Spending the extra money on a six core processor.

For using it with Fsx a piece of software that's not even written for a six core.

Will you see a 600 dollar difference worth of performance gain over a Oc I7 920 i doubt it.

What we  need are Somme benchmarks using Fsx And the I7 processors.

Then we will know if its worth the huge price difference over a lower end I7 processor. ;D

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Thanks again for those bits of info guys. My machine is running FSX pretty good right now,  so I guess I'm not in any big hurry to overclock. I'll sort of "Hasten Slowly"and glean more feedback etc. BTW Sli, how's your overclocked 980X performing compared to stock?

Cheers,

Paul (Condor)

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Hi All,

I must be the odd ball out then. See my specs. (i7 980X, o'clocked to 4.36) 6GB 2000mhz RAM, 300 GB Velociraptor  and a GTX 285.

I am using two screens, one to put the radio and GPS etc on. I still can't max everything out at YBBN or YMML and expect a smooth flight. It is certainly better than before (at least I can get airborne now).  Frame rates come down to 7 or 9 at YBBN, and about 12-15 for YMML (flyable). So I can't see how some of you guys using a lot less up to date equipment can get great results maxed out?

One thing I am noticing, using CPU-Z, is that all six cores are being utilised, core #0 always at 100%, the remainder around 60 to  80%. Temps are staying below 70. However the overclocking speed seems to change mid flight, depending on where I'm flying. Over non-urban areas it sometimes drops to 1.6 ghz; then back up to 4.36 when in an urban area. I have my framerates set at 30.  So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the be all end all computer still hasn't been developed to allow us to max everything out that ORBX comes up with.  Dare say it will happen..... but when?

Cheers

Hank

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Hi All,

I must be the odd ball out then. See my specs. (i7 980X, o'clocked to 4.36) 6GB 2000mhz RAM, 300 GB Velociraptor  and a GTX 285.

-snip-

However the overclocking speed seems to change mid flight, depending on where I'm flying. Over non-urban areas it sometimes drops to 1.6 ghz; then back up to 4.36 when in an urban area. I have my framerates set at 30.  So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the be all end all computer still hasn't been developed to allow us to max everything out that ORBX comes up with.  Dare say it will happen..... but when?

Cheers

Hank

Hank, your CPU speed changing mid flight (overclocked or not) is most likely due to a setting in your BIOS. On some motherboards, that setting is called Speedstep. Also, some motherboards have a setting in the BIOS that steps the CPU speed back based on temps. This setting can be tweaked so that the CPU steps back based on certain steps, or turned off. I suggest you take a closer look into your MB BIOS and look for some settings such as these. Take your time when you do this, as your MB might have similiar settings with different names.

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hello Hank

Speedstep is a power saving feature.(welcom to the world of overclokkers)

If you only using your comp. for Fs ok disable it.

When you are using your comp for other thinks than Fs leave it .

When disabled its always using 130 watt ore more of power consumption.

Enabeled it will use 40 watt or 130 watt depending  whatt the prossesor is doing.

Speed is money. 8)

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Hi All,

I must be the odd ball out then. See my specs. (i7 980X, o'clocked to 4.36) 6GB 2000mhz RAM, 300 GB Velociraptor  and a GTX 285.

I am using two screens, one to put the radio and GPS etc on. I still can't max everything out at YBBN or YMML and expect a smooth flight. It is certainly better than before (at least I can get airborne now).  Frame rates come down to 7 or 9 at YBBN, and about 12-15 for YMML (flyable). So I can't see how some of you guys using a lot less up to date equipment can get great results maxed out?

One thing I am noticing, using CPU-Z, is that all six cores are being utilised, core #0 always at 100%, the remainder around 60 to  80%. Temps are staying below 70. However the overclocking speed seems to change mid flight, depending on where I'm flying. Over non-urban areas it sometimes drops to 1.6 ghz; then back up to 4.36 when in an urban area. I have my framerates set at 30.  So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the be all end all computer still hasn't been developed to allow us to max everything out that ORBX comes up with.  Dare say it will happen..... but when?

Cheers

Hank

Disable speedstep or whatever it's called in your bios, Sniper is right, you may also have to disable other thing like Hyper threading if you have not done it yet, your temp will also go down with Hyper threading disable.

Hank, you have a very good system I'm jalous BUT as of now your bottleneck is your graphic card.......if you can get a GTX 480 go for it and put the 285 on Ebay...as I can tell by reading other simmer's post  this card is doing wonders in FSX with the new beta driver........

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Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

I have disabled hyper threading.... Also the E1C (I think that's what it's called) which I think is the Speedstep

thingy in BIOS. Couldn't find the actual word "Speedstep" in the BIOS.  But it still slows down and speeds up

all the time.

Alain, I've read so many things on the GTX480 that I'm still not convinced that it is the be all and end all Graphics

card. In the latest PC Authourity Magazine the review was not all that favourable, comparing it to the ATI HD5870.

Cost wise it is too outrageous according to the article. I've already forked out the $1500:00 for the 980X, thinking that

I was going to be in Flight Sim heaven; but I'm afraid that that hasn't happened yet.

I'm still having Blue Screen of Death events happening (last night again coming in to land in Vancouver) and the YMLT

is still doing it as well. Sometimes I consider going back to FS9.... it's always more stable.

Cheers

Hank

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Hank

C1E have nothing to do with Speedstep.

And dont disable Hyperthreading.You paid extra money for it.

What you do read the manual of your motherboard if you dont have it down it from the net.

Speedstep is somewhere hidden in the bios.

Fame drop is normal in Fsx in Somme situations. Even with speedstep disabled Just tested it last night.

Grtz

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Hank

C1E have nothing to do with Speedstep.

And dont disable Hyperthreading.You paid extra money for it.

What you do read the manual of your motherboard if you dont have it down it from the net.

Speedstep is somewhere hidden in the bios.

Fame drop is normal in Fsx in Somme situations. Even with speedstep disabled Just tested it last night.

Grtz

FSX do NOT take advantage of Hyperthreading, it can be good for other game not FSX, you'll also reduce the heat turning it off.

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Hank,

My new machine is a stock 980X cpu and my frame rates at YBBN far exceed your 9fps....sorry!! Now this may be a stupid question, but have you set up as per the Recommended FSX Slider Settings?

Cheers,

Paul

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Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

I have disabled hyper threading.... Also the E1C (I think that's what it's called) which I think is the Speedstep

thingy in BIOS. Couldn't find the actual word "Speedstep" in the BIOS.  But it still slows down and speeds up

all the time.

Alain, I've read so many things on the GTX480 that I'm still not convinced that it is the be all and end all Graphics

card. In the latest PC Authourity Magazine the review was not all that favourable, comparing it to the ATI HD5870.

Cost wise it is too outrageous according to the article. I've already forked out the $1500:00 for the 980X, thinking that

I was going to be in Flight Sim heaven; but I'm afraid that that hasn't happened yet.

I'm still having Blue Screen of Death events happening (last night again coming in to land in Vancouver) and the YMLT

is still doing it as well. Sometimes I consider going back to FS9.... it's always more stable.

Cheers

Hank

Hank, here is a link about Speedsteep in bios for your motherboard....it's call CPU EIST funtion..........  http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/26917-gigabyte-ga-x58a-ud7-lga1366-motherboard-review-8.html    read it it's good.

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I'm still having Blue Screen of Death events happening (last night again coming in to land in Vancouver) and the YMLT

is still doing it as well. Sometimes I consider going back to FS9.... it's always more stable.

Cheers

Hank

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blue Screen of Death is not (almost 100% sure) because of FSX, it's mainly because of instability, your rig may be stable enough for other game but FSX is in a world of his own, what can cause that will you ask.....not enough voltage on the CPU? memory problem? Voltage for the memory ++++.........you may have used this software before but just in case you did not use this stress test before try it  http://downloads.guru3d.com/OCCT-(OverClock-Checking-Tool)-3.0.0-download-1880.html  ...make 2 pass with it (2 hours) that will tell you if your overclock is stable.

(make sure you have the latest bios for your motherboard)

Assuming you are not stable....be ready to spend a day (probably more) tweaking here and there trying to get your rig stable, always run OCCT after making a change in Bios, one bios change one OCCT test, the best thing to do is read a lot about Gigabyte overclocking tips like in this forums  http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/    so another word go to your local grocery store buy a couple of cases of your favorate brew have a seat in front of your computer and get ready to trow a bottle or two at it....... ;D........seriously if you are patient and get it right the result will be amazing.....it took me 4 days to squeeze out everything I could out of my rig and $120.00 of cofee...... good luck.

EDIT: Very important, always check your temp when running a stress test like OCCT.........  I use speed fan  http://download.cnet.com/SpeedFan/3000-2094_4-10067444.html

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Hi Alain,

I've downloaded the OCCT testing thingy... it sounds a bit daunting?

You say to run the temperature Speed Fan as well... I have another application Core Temp that gives me the temps of the cores.

If the temps do go too high??? do I stop OCCT running immediately???  In the download page they give you all kinds of warnings about how high the temps will go with the stress test. I've had all my six cores running at near full capacity just using FSX , REX and Plan-G. I also went to the other site you posted and read up on the Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7. Gone back into the BIOS and found the CPU EIST function. Then they mentioned that the QPI/Vtt voltage should be 1.5v for the DRAM 2000mhz.

Tried it at that voltage, but the computer would not load Windows again. So I dropped it back to 1.3v (1.2v stock standard) and it is going again at present.

So, the question.....do you stop OCCT if the temps go too high?

Cheers

Hank

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So, the question.....do you stop OCCT if the temps go too high?

Cheers

Hank

OCCT will stop itself if temps exceed CPU specs or it will stop automatically when it runs into stability issues,  if it chugs along without failing then your CPU is fine a good hour of CPU stress testing is enough to know if your CPU is stable or not.

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Hello! Hank,

The max temp is 67.9C on your CPU, http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47932 that is according to Intel.

OCCT is suppose to shut itsefl down if the temps on the CPU is to high but I myself would stop the stress test if the temp. goes to high, the best thing to do is to keep the temp at 65C or below at full stress, some people do go higher than 67C saying Intel is not telling the truth about temp. cause they don't want us to overclock......is it possible....maybe....will you risk your CPU by trying to prove Intel wrong? I tried and pushed my CPU over 83C before OCCT stop the stress test, I wanna to see by myself, I did not kill the CPU,  it's a $300.00 CPU not $1,500.00 like yours.

I killed a QX6850 3 years ago ($1,050.00 brand new) overclocking it, after that I spent $300.00 seeking the help of a therapist trying to get over that dead CPU........ ;D

Download speed fan, I think there is a conflic between OCCT and core temp, speed fan will give you the over all temp + each core temp, keep an eye on the CPU temp (that's the overall temp) not the core temp.

Hank, all your 6 core can run at 100% at stock speed (3.33GHz) without problems, when overclocking and adding voltage the temp will rise and that's when you have to keep an eye on the temp.

Your rams should always run at the manuf. spec ALWAYS....... exp: if your rams are clocked at  2000MHz at 1.65v from the manuf. you should run them at that speed, are these your rams >  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145255 if yes this is what you should see in bios ....2000MHz at 1.65v  timing @ 8-8-8-24

Do NOT use somebody else setting EVER as their cpu, rams, or motherboard will NOT overclock the same as yours, different rig different settings, hardcore overclockers will try to run their rig as high as possible with less voltage as possible, the web page I gave you is something you can refer to, people posting on these site can help you reach your overclock sweet spot on your rig by giving you advice on what to do to get there.

Use CPU:OCCT test not the linpack.....

Test Type > infinite

Custom Test Duration > 2 hours

Test Mode > Large Data Set

Priority > High

Uncheck Hyperthreading

Good luck.....

Edit: after looking at your first post I think your i7 980X, o'clocked to 4.36 is already very good, make sure the RAMS are running at the manuf. spec. and start OCCT, keep us up to date with what's happening at the other end of the world....

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Hello! Hank,

The max temp is 67.9C on your CPU, http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47932 that is according to Intel.

Be warned that that is overall CPU external temperature (also known as tcase). The core temp (tjunction) is a different beast, and the one you should be looking out for (far more accurate). The tjunction/coretemp is shown for EACH core (6 for you). I believe the tjunction max is around 90C - 100C (not sure for the 980x). Most people recommend keeping the CPU core temps at below 75C under load.

Also try using IntelBurnTest. OCCT is fine, but it doesn't put much stress on the CPU. My load temps will be 10-15C lower in OCCT compared to IBT. IntelBurnTest can pick up instability in 15minutes that would take OCCT or Prime95 tens of hours to find.

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Hello! Hank,

The max temp is 67.9C on your CPU, http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47932 that is according to Intel.

Be warned that that is overall CPU external temperature (also known as tcase). The core temp (tjunction) is a different beast, and the one you should be looking out for (far more accurate). The tjunction/coretemp is shown for EACH core (6 for you). I believe the tjunction max is around 90C - 100C (not sure for the 980x). Most people recommend keeping the CPU core temps at below 75C under load.

Also try using IntelBurnTest. OCCT is fine, but it doesn't put much stress on the CPU. My load temps will be 10-15C lower in OCCT compared to IBT. IntelBurnTest can pick up instability in 15minutes that would take OCCT or Prime95 tens of hours to find.

Your right but we are trying to be stable enough to run FSX, you can always push your rig to the max but what kind of program will somebody need be running so he has to be SUPER stable?

Look at my spec. now with that kind of mem. timing + CPU at 4.32GHz on air that's  pushing my 3 years old rig to the max and been very stable, do I need to have my hardware that tigh to run FSX.....naaaa....I can't see spending 5 to 6 days (12 hours per day) tweaking to the max just for FSX, I did it cause I had time to kill.......

We are just trying to get Hank's rig to be stable enough for him not to get the BSOD he's experiencing running FSX ...

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Hello! Hank,

The max temp is 67.9C on your CPU, http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47932 that is according to Intel.

Be warned that that is overall CPU external temperature (also known as tcase). The core temp (tjunction) is a different beast, and the one you should be looking out for (far more accurate). The tjunction/coretemp is shown for EACH core (6 for you). I believe the tjunction max is around 90C - 100C (not sure for the 980x). Most people recommend keeping the CPU core temps at below 75C under load.

Also try using IntelBurnTest. OCCT is fine, but it doesn't put much stress on the CPU. My load temps will be 10-15C lower in OCCT compared to IBT. IntelBurnTest can pick up instability in 15minutes that would take OCCT or Prime95 tens of hours to find.

Your right but we are trying to be stable enough to run FSX, you can always push your rig to the max but what kind of program will somebody need be running so he has to be SUPER stable?

Look at my spec. now with that kind of mem. timing + CPU at 4.32GHz on air that's  pushing my 3 years old rig to the max and been very stable, do I need to have my hardware that tigh to run FSX.....naaaa....I can't see spending 5 to 6 days (12 hours per day) tweaking to the max just for FSX, I did it cause I had time to kill.......

We are just trying to get Hank's rig to be stable enough for him not to get the BSOD he's experiencing running FSX ...

Not sure I see your point? Wouldn't you rather use a stress test that will find any instability in 15-30min rather than 24hrs? I'd rather know for sure I had a stable overclock than one that coudl potentially BSOD/freeze (even if its only once a week).

Regarding Hanks problem, Hank are you using BP=0? If you don't know what this is, then chances you aren't. It can and does cause BSOD's if your GPU cannot cope. BSOD's are also commonly caused by faulty memory. Run memtest (create a boot cd/usb stick).

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Actually Hank. I just noticed you're running Corsair memory. I would bet my left testicle that your BSOD's are being caused by faulty RAM. I build computers where I work, and when we recently switched to Corsair we had a whole host of problems. Lots of sticks were DOA and we hard a large amount that failed after a few weeks/months. We easily had a 30% failure rate. Switched to Kingston now.

Test that memory!

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Hi Alain an sOcks,

The drama continues.  I have installed and used OCCT. It shut down after 28 minutes saying there was an error detected  in core 5. I would love to show you the results but I don't know how to put the photo's or graph on this post?

Alain, I followed your instructions with the DRAM in BIOS and set it at 8 8 8 24.  The default was set at 9 9 9 24. I don't know if that makes any difference... all I know is that the computer worked OK.... it started up. So now that the stress test has failed... core temps on core 1 and 5 got up to 79 degrees centigrade... what do you guys suggest?  Tj Max temp that sOcks spoke of does show 101 degrees centigrade.  sOcks BP=0 does confuse me??? What is that?

Awaiting your replies

Cheers

Hank

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Actually Hank. I just noticed you're running Corsair memory. I would bet my left testicle that your BSOD's are being caused by faulty RAM. I build computers where I work, and when we recently switched to Corsair we had a whole host of problems. Lots of sticks were DOA and we hard a large amount that failed after a few weeks/months. We easily had a 30% failure rate. Switched to Kingston now.

Test that memory!

Hank/S0cks,

I agree with S0cks about the Corsair RAM, most particularly if it is any of their 'value' range. I have previously had all sorts of strange issues which I subsequently found to be a faulty Corsair memory stick. I found this out by simply running a Linux Memory test (on a Ubuntu Linux CD and freely available). Replaced the stick and ended that issue. It may well be worth consideration.

Paul

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Hank.

First of all start all over again.

Put your bios back to default settings.

Install. CPU-Z , Prime95 and CoreTemp the programs are used by almost every overclockkers on the Globe.

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

http://www.majorgeeks.com/Prime95_d4363.html

http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

I7s are so easy to overclock.

Start by raising the multiplayer for the Ghz you want.

Lets say you want 4.1GHZ.

Put the multiplayer to 31.( 31*133=4123)

For the moment dont do anything else.

Boot windows.

If it will boot its ok . Go back to the bios and increase( CPU voltage and QPI/Dram voltage) this are the only settings to fiddle with.

Do this step by step small increments at a time.

Until the computer will boot.

Run the Core temp and prime 95 programs

At 100% load the temp could not exceed 75 degrees Celsius.

If you still get the BSOD normaly this is memory related.

Remove all the sticks and check one at the time with a program like memtest

http://www.memtest86.com/.

Good luck and happy Tuning ;D

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