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wingclip

active Anything I should know before Win 10 upgrade?

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Hi Folks,

It's been quite a while since I've visited and just as long since I've even flown/ran my FSX program. My wife died from terminal cancer in March 2019 so I had my focus on her several months before she died and then after she died, I’ve been ‘regrouping myself’ up until recently.

 

Therefore, I’m sure I may have some catching up to do but I was able to find time to update my FTX software through FTX Central several times throughout the year. In fact, I’m about to do one of those update checks right after I post this.

 

Anyway, as I'm sure you all know, MS is about to yank the support for Windows 7 users, which means I'm going to have to upgrade to Windows 10.

 

I plan to buy the upgrade to Windows 10 Pro 64bit version by the end of December or early January 2020. My question is really aimed at those people who have already upgraded from Windows 7 to Win 10.

 

Is there anything that you suggest I do before I upgrade the O/S? (Of course, I mean besides the usual stuff, like backups).

 

I think it may help someone answer that question if they know a few basic things about my computer. My desktop is custom built and I’ve noted a more complete listing of my system specifications below this post.

 

Essentially, I have Six internally mounted SSD’s and 1 externally connected SSHD. One of the SSD’s is dedicated to the FSX installation.

 

I have the Windows 7 O/S installed on the “C Drive” and in addition to the O/S, I have several other ‘large’ programs installed with it, (such as Adobe, On 1 Photo Suite, etc.).

 

Of course, any FSX related program that I've installed, places a certain amount of key information in that “C Drive” for the Windows O/S to use. Therefore, even though FSX is installed on a dedicated drive, many of the data for it is in the O/S drive.

 

I intend to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro 64bit (I presently have Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit, Service Pack 1 installed).

 

I DO NOT intend doing a ‘clean installation’ because I have too many years of add-ons and fine-tuning invested in FSX and many other programs. Yes, I know that a clean install would be the best way but please try to understand that I’m speaking about an investment of thousands of dollars in add-on software, let alone the time and modifications I’ve made over those years.

 

My FTX add-ons only makes up a small, (but important), percentage of all the 3rd party add-ons I’ve acquired in those years. Anyway, I'm hoping to avoid permission issues or program ownership recognition problems as well as lost data.

 

Anyone who thinks that they may have a good precautionary suggestion for me, (even if you think I probably knew it), I’d appreciate the insight.

Thank you,

Rich

 

This is the basic list of my Desktop system specs:

Win 7 64 Home Premium Service Pack 1/ Corsair 780T case/ MSI z97 MPower MAX AC/ 16GB RAM  8x2 (2400Mhz)/ Corsair 1000w PSU/i7 4790K CP/ (Dev Cnyn)/ GTX 1070 8G/ Crucial MX200 500gb SSD OS Drive (two of these)/ Crucial MX100 500gb SSD/ Plextor 512GB SSD/ Plextor 256GB SSD/ Kingston 250GB SSD/ MomentusX 1TB SSHD External USB 3.0

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Hello,

I am sorry for your loss.

 

The Windows 10 installer should upgrade your installation and leave everything in place

except any installed software that it finds to be incompatible.

It will list those before it starts.

You seems to have thought through the process and I would anticipate that you will be

able to "upgrade" successfully.

You might even still be able to do so free of charge.

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Thanks Nick! Yes, I have read somewhere that there may still be a way to get updated free. However, I need to look into that closer because I want the "Pro" version and they may only be offering the home version for free.

 

I did install Windows 10 Home version into my other desktop last year, (or maybe it was early this year), back when MS started announcing this end to the Windows 7 support. I tried it for about 1 day and then returned to Windows 7 because I couldn't configure the system they way I could in Win 7.

 

It was only relatively recent that I found out the Win 10 Pro version allows pretty much the same freedom to work with as Win 7 did, so that's why I'm looking to get that version. Anyway, thanks again, I'm definitely going to check that out.

Rich

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I agree with Nick. I started upgrading my Win7 to Win10x64 when it was still free ... but I missed the deadline on the 3rd reboot by  minutes. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!!

 

So .. I put it all off but decided to bite the bullet a few months ago.

 

Surprisingly - ZERO problems with any of my installed software. I've pooh-poohed Microsoft many times over the years, but I have to give them credit for this. There have been some pretty ghastly Windows versions over the years, but Win7 was definitely a good one. So far, I'd say Win10 is also a good one. There are the usual niggles, but overall ... I really do like it.

 

As far as your sim or any add-ons ... have no fear ... do your backups and go for it.

 

If you're prepared to do a bit of nerdy "dancing" you can install the upgrade from an image on the MS Developer website. providing your Win7 serial + activation keys are legal and valid, you can install the Win10 version over the top for free (via an image on a USB stick or burned to DVD). However - I had a Win7 Pro system. You may need to check whether Win7 Home to Win10 Pro is free. Do you really need Pro?

 

Adam.

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@ Adam: Thanks Adam! That's really very encouraging to know.

" Do you really need Pro?": From what I've read, the Pro version is the only one that lets me turn off Windows Updates, Security settings, and a variety of other things that I do with my present Windows 7 system. I run my own, strict scheduling system for Windows updates and other events. I ALWAYS turn off the Windows update system, along with many other background programs, when I fly and then I turn it all back on when I'm done.

 

When I fly FSX, I also run a customized, high-speed CPU overclock profile for it. I maintain stability and hold my frame rates at about 32FPS as a result. Last year, when I installed the Windows 10 upgrade version to my other desktop, I was hugely disappointed with the lack of control it permitted me to have. I felt like I had a Mac and I was stuck with the system telling me what's best for me.

 

I wasn't about to let that happen and I'm sure many Mac owners love their system for good reasons, but I prefer to make my own decisions on what and when something is going to happen. It's been about a month since I read the info about Windows 10 Pro's flexibility so I have to go back and read it again to make sure I have my facts straight.

 

However, you say that you have Windows 10 Pro 64bit, so is it true that you can, (if you wanted to), turn off the background programs for the system, such as Windows updater (WUAUSERV in the Services of Task Manager), like you can in Windows 7? 

 

When I turn that off, it also shuts down a host of other background programs, which use a huge amount of RAM power. To me, a "huge amount" starts at about 3%. They're all unnecessary to the FSX sim and I recover close to 13% of the RAM (and who knows how much CPU power). 

Thanks,

Rich

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Hello Rich,

 

given your strongly held views, I see no reason why you could not simply keep Windows 7

on your PC and use it to run your expertly created bespoke FSX installation.

There is no need to be connected to the outside world and your PC would be perfectly safe

once you had disabled your network adapter.

 

If you feel that you must have Windows 10, creating a dual boot system might make more sense.

I have Windows 10 and 7.

I do not routinely use 7 because I do not subscribe to your views about Windows 10 but it is there

if I need it for testing.

  • Upvote 1

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Nick, I think the dual boot suggestion is a great idea! I can't believe that I haven't thought of that myself!  However, I'm not sure what it was that I said that would've instilled a note of someone having a 'strongly held view'. Many people prefer to control their systems and that's actually a typically held POV among those who spent a lot of time and money building their own computers.

 

Indulge me for just a moment; I learn how to build computers and over a period of time, (say, a year), I finally understand the cooperation and balance between the PSU, Motherboard, RAM, CPU & GPU. Then I set out to buy the components, which in my case, are approximately two generations back, because the prices are lower than they were when they were all the latest versions.

 

I also join several websites that specialize in "Overclocking" the Central and Graphics Processing Units. That uses up another 2 to 5 months of time in the way of learning and trial and testing the information. OK, so now, I have all the components together and I tune the CPU & GPU to run as fast as it can without crashing. This allows me to utilize the higher settings in the FSX control system, (higher LOD setting in "Terrain" and higher resolution in Texture Max Load of "Graphics").

 

This pays off because I can maintain 32FPS running the High Resolution add-on software from FTX and others, and get the results I paid for. I never did like spending the money for high-res add-ons only to have to squelch back the FSX settings in order to be able to fly at a frame rate above that of a slide show.

 

So now I have a system that can finally do that and the next thing I know while in the middle of a flight, I'm either crashing to a blue screen or suddenly get a Page File Error telling me that I ran out of memory!

 

It takes some special software (most of it Open Source), to find and shutdown all background programs that don’t need to run when FSX is running.

 

(BTW, I do have to stay connected to the internet because some of my flight software requires it. The Aircraft Carriers and a number of other add-ons need that connection).

 

Of course, a lot of it can't be turned off through the Task Manager. However, I have a special program installed that can go in and turn off most of these and I can even set it up as a profile that I simply call up before I start flying.

 

I learned that the Page File Memory issue is one that can't be overcome by hardware. As I understand it, (and to summarize it to as short as I can), the O/S offers 4GB of Page File Memory and a 64bit O/S keeps 2GB of it to itself.

 

I've got 6 internally mounted SSD's and I've tried moving the Virtual memory to each of them. I tried amounts ranging from one-half of a GB to as much as 6GB all to one drive, and then tried spreading it over 3 or 4 drives.

 

It didn't make a difference what I did and in the end, I found that it never would. Presently, I have 3072MB applied to my C-Drive, (my O/S drive), and another 3072MB applied to one of my less-used drives. I read that the Page File crash was pretty much, insurmountable and unavoidable if I didn't back down certain settings in the FSX Config file.

 

Maybe that can help you see it from the POV of those who applied all that time and money and then find that the O/S itself has 'forced itself' on us. At least, that's how it feels when I want to stop something from running and I can't because the O/S 'said so' ;)

 

If Windows 10 Pro really is as versatile as I understood it to be, then I won't need a dual boot system.

 

However, your suggestion is a very good one, (even if Win 10 Pro is the way I hope). I really like that ‘dual-boot’ proposal and I'm going to see what I would need to do if I chose to go that way, so thank you!!

 

I've been a member of the Orbx website forum as well as several other flight sim forums for quite some time. I know that you (and several other long-time and well-known names) have an incredible amount of experience in the flight sim field alone, (and I'm sure you have lot of expertise in many other areas as well). 

 

I've taken quite a bit of your advice over the years, either directly, (through a thread I started), or indirectly through someone's other posts so I know you know what you’re talking about.

 

I’m not second-guessing you, (I’m 63 and know better than that), but I like to have an understanding of how things work and why. The reason for that, (for me, anyway), is so that I can adjust it to my needs.

Thanks again for the help (past & present)!

Rich

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Hi Rich

 

I upgraded my computers to W10 few days ago. The upgrade is still free. What you have to do is to download the Media Creation Tool (strange name ! preferably at microsoft.com) and launch it.  If you have W7Pro, it will upgrade it to W10Pro. This is what it did for me.

 

I have 3 SSD and 1 HD, no problem. Windows gets activated automatically.

 

Don't see any problem so far with other hardware or software. It took a little time to dowload all the new drivers and I had to help him once but nothing to worry. It takes the best part of half  a day.

 

MS won't support 7 anymore soon but also their new sim will work only on 10. 

 

 

Edited by dominique

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Thanks Dominique!

I don't have Windows 7 Pro so I'm almost certain at this point that there will be no freebees. Anyway, you open another point that I all but forgot about; the new FS flight sim to come. If, (and I MEAN, “IF”), it's anything as good as they've lead on so far, I'm sure that the FTX software I've bought won't work in that.

 

There were 2 prime reasons for why I never switched over to P3D. One had to do with the ‘Jell-O like’ appearance of their water, and the other was the fact that I spent, no, "invested", a lot of money in 3rd party add-on software for FSX.

 

At this point, I have FSX setup to the level that makes you look twice at the screen because it appears to be real-time video of real-world flights. The only drawback to FSX is the program code.

 

Like many people, early on I had an off-the-rack computer with a 3.0 CPU that I 'thought' was fast. As soon as I discovered FSX and 3rd-party add-ons, I discovered the sad facts about just how slow my computer was.

 

It was then that I decided to learn as much as I could about desktop computers, how they worked, how to build them, what were the key components to making them fast, and ultimately, how to overclock.

 

I have yet to even think about researching the third-party software for FSX and the compatibility of that same software for the new Microsoft Flight sim.

 

I’m almost positive that there will be no compatibility and I’m sure that’s probably been covered here in this website and among many others. Still, the new, upcoming, Microsoft flight Sim, (I’m not sure what they’re going to call it) will really need to have some very unusual attribute/s before it’ll swing me over to a new flight Sim platform.

 

I suppose it would take something like a very ‘computer frame rate friendly’ coding coupled with an already “knock your socks off” scenery, landscape accuracy, and mesh, for me to seriously consider blowing off a few thousand dollars in software already acquired during my ‘FS X years’.

Thanks again,

Rich

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8 hours ago, wingclip said:

Thanks Dominique!I don't have Windows 7 Pro so I'm almost certain at this point that there will be no freebees.

I’ve upgraded another computer with W7 home (or whatever its name). It was free too move it to standard W10 .

Edited by dominique

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Thanks, right, that's what I'm understanding, but as I said, I'm going to Win 10 Pro 64bit from Win 7 Home Prem 64bit and that upgrade isn't one that you can have for free. At least, that's the way things seem to be pointing.

Rich

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3 hours ago, wingclip said:

Thanks, right, that's what I'm understanding, but as I said, I'm going to Win 10 Pro 64bit from Win 7 Home Prem 64bit and that upgrade isn't one that you can have for free. At least, that's the way things seem to be pointing.

 

I think you're right. My Win7 was the Pro version and my Win10 system ended up being Pro as well. I'd consider calling mine an "update" whereas yours would be an "upgrade". Having said that - it's possible that you could update to Win10 Home and then upgrade it from Home to Pro. It may be a cheaper option, but I wonder if it leaves your Windows in a bit of a hybrid state.

 

As the OS i the basis for anything and everything you do on a system, I'd want to be confident that it's all as it should be  - with as little legacy junk as possible.

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Hi Rich,

 

Sorry for your loss.

 

I did an upgrade the only issue I had, was a printer/scan/fax machine that had no drivers for windows 10 otherwise all went ok and  I moved to windows 10 Pro.

 

Only other niggle I had was the Login picture was blurred, got round this by turning off windows transparency effect in personalization colours.

 

good luck

 

 

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On 11/13/2019 at 6:34 AM, Taph said:

Hi Rich,

 

Sorry for your loss.

 

I did an upgrade the only issue I had, was a printer/scan/fax machine that had no drivers for windows 10 otherwise all went ok and  I moved to windows 10 Pro.

 

Only other niggle I had was the Login picture was blurred, got round this by turning off windows transparency effect in personalization colours.

 

good luck

 

Thank you Taph,

Sorry for the late response. (I must have missed the notification). I still haven't made the move! I know that, if for no other reason, I should do it for security concerns but I'm just fighting my own stubbornness. I don't necessarily like change but I've always accepted the fact that nothing is 'forever' and would bite my tongue and move on.

 

I even recall back when MS gave the same ultimatum to people who were running Windows XP. Back then, most people were fighting with Windows Vista when suddenly, Windows 7 appeared. It was around then that MS announced that they were dropping support for Windows XP.

 

It seems that shortly after Windows 7 came out that it was followed by Windows 8, 8.1, (and was there a "9"?), and they all flopped. You know? ...I always wondered why MS kept throwing alternate and consistently 'less-than-favorable' O/S choices after they released Windows 7. It was obvious that Win 7 was superior to their 'latest, new releases' and it prevailed over all of them.


It didn't seem to take very long for most people to establish that Windows 7 really was, not only better than XP, but the best O/S MS had ever released. Even the 'Mac people' were impressed and many switched back to the MS/PC system.

 

In 2018, I installed the Windows 10 Home version into one of my desktops when MS was offering the upgrade for free. Seriously, in less than 5 minutes, I was in a panic and thought I just reconfigured my PC into a Mac! I guess I had that Windows 10 O/S in the computer for 20 or 30 minutes as I tried to make some changes in the Windows 10 O/S update system as well as several other background programs.

 

I found out real quick that I was unable to stop them and realized that I was forced to accept what the O/S was 'doing for me'! I don't remember all the things I tried but I know that I couldn't remove that O/S from my computer fast enough. I'm not sure, (and I may be completely wrong in the way I recall this), but I think Windows 10 REQUIRED that I install the latest Internet Explorer browser!

 

I removed that browser from all my computers years ago and don't intend on ever installing it again. I'm hoping I'm wrong in how I remembered this but anyway, after 'trying Win 10 Home version for 20 or 30 minutes, I reverted back to Windows 7 and ran off to hide and dread the day I was going to have to face the Windows 10 'dictatorship' once again. It was only relatively recent that I read something that said the Windows 10 Pro version will allow you to make alterations just like Windows 7 did.

 

I'm counting on that to be true but if it's not, then I'm going to install the Windows 10 as a second choice O/S in my hard drive. Then I'll keep Windows 7 and use it to fly FSX and I'll have to just live with Win 10 until MS gets out of their 'control-freak' mode and stops behaving like Mac.

Thanks again,

Rich

 

 

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Hello,

Windows 10 seems to be the future and perhaps may soon just be called Windows.

For most of us it is the best Windows version so far but I will not even start to try to

undo any of your preconceptions.

 

To address one of your recollections, Windows 10 comes with its own internet browser,

now named Edge, which cannot be uninstalled but there is no requirement to use it at all.

 

Windows 10 and FSX are entirely compatible and in fact FSX performs as well as it ever

has in that environment. It was released in the days of XP and Vista and in fact has some

idiosyncrasies even under Windows 7, though I expect that you will not recollect that.

 

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I've traditionally loathed Internet Explorer (with a vengeance!!!). As a web developer by day, I got sick and tired of having to implement kludges to sites to satisfy this brain dead (non-standards-compliant) browser - Firefox being my usual choice. "Edge", when it started out, seemed similarly blighted - but I have to say that the very latest build I have (Version 80.0.361.48 - 64-bit) is fast and appears to work correctly.

 

I have three systems now running Win 10 - and all of them have been running well for some time. Dare I say it, but even better than Win 7. I've had a love/hate relationship with Microsoft over the years but I have to [begrudgingly] admit that they do seem to be getting their act together.

 

Many people hate the way Win 10 takes over too much and does things "behind your back", but I find I spend far less time these days wondering "what the hell is it doing now?" ... I just let it get on with it. Whatever it's doing is OK by me LOL.

 

Adam.

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Windows 10 defaults to using its browser Edge, but you can opt to choose the one of your choice, my pet hate of 10 is that the update system will insist on trying to foist programs onto you, but it is quite easy to say no and to remove things from the menu system that you don't want. The latest version of Edge to come is to be based on the chrome code,  hopefully this will allow a lot of add on tools that make it friendly and enable blocking of pop ups and adverts. The windows pro version does allow more control of the update system so you can tell it when it can get access and implement, also you can delay the updates until you are happy to have them install

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8 hours ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hello,

...but I will not even start to try to undo any of your preconceptions.

 

Thanks Nick, but please, I have only the preconceptions regarding Windows 10 Pro because I've never tried it. On the other hand, Windows 10 Home was the one that I did have installed for 30 minutes before I removed it. Whatever else it can or can't do beyond that 30 minute trial is incidental as far as I'm concerned. The Windows 10 Pro offers more ability to control the background, or at least, that's what I keep reading.

 

Thanks for the reply regarding FSX. Now all I have to do is 'apply myself'.

Rich

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Thanks folks, I know I haven't got a choice; It's Win 10 Pro or an open-source O/S and I just have to get with it and 'git 'er done'.

Rich

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HI Wingclip,

 

First sincere sympathies for your loss....

 

As for upgrading to W10, you have a lot of suggestions here, but here is one more.... a free upgrade link

 

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/you-can-download-windows-10-free-you-should-because-windows-7-dead/

 

I know you want W10 Pro, but you could always start with the free upgrade, and then buy the Pro version when you are satisfied that 10 will work with your system....

 

 

Sherm

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Make sure you have downloaded all current win10 drivers for your hardware before making the move. That ensures workability even before having an internet connection - and you need tham anyway.

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Hello,

everyone's experience of software is different, there are too many variables.

Hardware and software configuration possibilities are almost unlimited and

that is before considering the results of any user intervention which can

multiply the number of potential combinations again.

 

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