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Ridvan Celik

Microsoft released a new announcement

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4 minutes ago, kitte said:

Fortunately bandwith really isn't that expensive any longer. While my broadband is payed by my company, it's still only around 70 EUR for 1 Gbps/1Gbps here in Finland and that is also the bandwith I actually get. Of course it varies from country to country but still.


Well, me it's a small 7mbs and 1 upload and I am lucky to have that where I live (rural)

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3 hours ago, kitte said:

Fortunately bandwith really isn't that expensive any longer. While my broadband is paid by my company, it's still only around 70 EUR for 1 Gbps/1Gbps here in Finland and that is also the bandwith I actually get. Of course it varies from country to country but still.

Then you are VERY good to go, sir!  Two days ago, I was at an already fast, competent speed of 120 Mbps, but since then, I am now at 360 Mbps, with a real-world of 380-385 constant obtainable.  I can go to 1 Gbps for about $15.00 per month, more over my present 360Mbps package,...but for what I have seen running with/at (real world) 385 Mbps (no time to even blink....) I think that I will get the full  (max rendered) texture and objects-over-texture- details, and stutter free over topography flight metrics, from M.S. 2020, with no need to go past my real-world throughput of 380-5 Mbps--->using their Adaptive Internet Download selection, within the sim.  My gawd,  360-385 Mbps...it's fast!

 

What is so great news for everybody reading this...(my personal opinion in play) is that with a live-as-you-fly download of your x/y position anywhere in the world....is that we are finally, FINALLY free of the GPU (on card)  graphics memory capacity (for good sustainable FPS) (forever upgrade!!!!)...if we, (and now most do...) have 6-8 GB's of on-board GPU memory...that will be way more than sufficient to render 20 or so miles around your plane.  It will be render, and release, render and release (data stream) to give you the illusion of flight movement over the topography.  Not like we are now with Prepar3D and XP11....you have scenery files constantly being loaded in by the CPU-demand-to-hard-disk...that in no way, on anybody's system...can match the speed of a direct off the internet 360Mbps-1Gbps direct-to-CPU/GPU, for purpose of rendering to the screen.

 

This (in my opinion) will be the turning point...a massive turning point, in how flight data/visual data is going to be ending up rendering to our screens, presently and into the future...wow....!

Edited by Orbx Flyer
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16 hours ago, Nick Cooper said:

 

By all means post links to actual hard news about the new simulator.

 

Thanks.

 

Just watched the Sept 30 Microsoft release of interviews and sample footage. Like everyone else, I'm impressed. But my first thought is, what about our ORBX? The business is surely going to be impacted, and the team will surely have to make major adjustments. How can we support and help ORBX through all of this?

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40 minutes ago, Rodger Pettichord said:

 

Just watched the Sept 30 Microsoft release of interviews and sample footage. Like everyone else, I'm impressed. But my first thought is, what about our ORBX? The business is surely going to be impacted, and the team will surely have to make major adjustments. How can we support and help ORBX through all of this?


Good point... a lot of third party addon  could be affected by this. I feel like no one can't really compete with a giant like Microsoft.

I have been looking at all those video and I have never seen something like that. The closest as to be ORBX TE.  Also some magic scenery that AF2 as like NY city and Switzerland that are awesome, but it look like Microsoft  found a ways to create the whole world in a supreme quality.

New Technology for sure and it will shake the flight simulator world.

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I can't wait to see it on my PC and enjoy Orbx's involvement with it.   Love the new technology.  We'll just have to wait and see where it will take us.  Good times!

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An Old man's 2 penny worth :rolleyes: - and a few FACTS to consider

 

Stop!! - are we getting carried away with the scenery and forgetting the fact that this is supposed to be a FLIGHT simulator.

 

Microsoft can be brilliant at Market research and PR - the first steps in the science of Marketing.  No doubt their "Gaming" graphics experience is coming to the fore here

After all - the French company involved is actually a "Game" Producer - Lets face it - maybe MS are secretly producing an extra market for X-Boxers - they almost admitted that.

(I do have an X-Box One - and pay a small monthly subscription to play any game in the MS library anytime I want - now on my PC - its called a "Game Pass"

Also - take note that there is a possibility - of 3 formats of this sim - a base one that will probably use current sceneries - Orbx etc - an Xbox version - 

and the as the top choice - the almost perfect visual sim they have shown us in these videos

 

Yes scenery is important - we Love Orbx for ours - but is it the most important part of the simulator - will the scenery land the aircraft?

As a Long time VFR pilot - (I'm colour blind and not allowed night flying or IFR) - I need scenery to Navigate and my recent flights covering the

whole of the TE South UK has demonstrated to me that I can more than adequately cope with my flying needs as long as I can find an airfield to land on.

Heavy A/C fliers - of which there are many - don't need VFR scenery - just large well equipped Airports that are as real as can be - and we seem to have a good choice at the moment from current addons from Orbx.

 

What I do - is to use what tools I have in my sim - to give me a decent cross wind landing at my own Orbx airport at my Orbx  Gold Coast here in Queensland.

Sometimes these Pesky Heavies get in my way - but I can find a nice parking spot to leave my Precious Albeo PA 32 Saratoga. I do remember trying to fly a 747 and a Concord back in MSFX ?? - but not really my thing - which is finding my way around My huge piece of real Estate called Australia - and my birth country of England - neither of them can be called easy - one has to little features  ----- and the other ----- toooo many.

 

Over the last few items above has been talk of infinite /gigs of Mbs.

 

Why do we think that this will be necessary?. Most the World are at the moment streaming Netflix Etc - yes even here in Australia where our MAX speed on offer thro Cable is 100Mbs - and doesn't seem make a great deal of difference to the HD quality of the videos - even with live sport - and most of you who have viewed all these videos have only an HD Monitor around 25-30" - and look how excited you have been in the last 24 hours. In my case they look even better on my 43"4K HDR TV monitor - mainly because of the upgrade element in the TVs software.

 

However - the reason I have a 4K monitor I and also have a much larger 4K TV for general use. More than 90% of Australians cannot use the full benefits of $K streaming

because the current Cable availability - of only 100Mbs (12.5MB/s) - those with 4K sets use the software to upgrade the HD slightly.

However - in my case - I have a Foxtel subscription that Includes a Satellite dish + 4k reception box. Thro. this I receive full 4K TV - and streaming sport it is just great.

The satellite dish is necessary because our broadband cable network cannot cope with the flow of 4K bits and bytes and satellite is very capable of the flow.

Foxtel will be streaming broadband by satellite by 2021 - just in time for the Australians who plump for the top MS Sim on offer.

Meanwhile we poor Australians will just have to happy with VFR - with Orbx - using the cheaper MSFX sim on offer. X-Boxers - not withstanding

 

 

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well guys, i will wait for what actually eventuates with 'MSFS 2020',

 

currently deploying,

 

* seasons with Orbxed P3Dv4+... (+ heaps of advanced aircraft & utilities)

 

* high detail scenery with Orbx TE regions in XP11... (+ heaps of advanced aircraft & utilities)

 

* & VR working right now with:-

P3D

XP11

Aerofly FS2

DCS World &

FlyInside simulator (with streamed Bing global data)...

 

lots of flying choices now & never ending learning!

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On 10/2/2019 at 1:22 PM, aero-3fsx said:

It just occurred to me that like X-Plane, all the scenes I have seen so far show summer. Does anyone recall mention of 4 seasons?

 

I saw an interview say said it was on the list, but not important for the start. Do the math 2PetaBytes * 4.

I dont know how good the Ai is working with snow fields :)

actually i dont care, i am more interested in the new flight physics.

.

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When I was writing the Blurb above - a Marketing slogan had occurred to me - but it dropped out of my Al-Al - What's his Name -  brain at that moment.

 

IT was _" Don't sell the Steak - sell the Sizzzle!"    :blink:

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I don't think MSFS2020 will be replacement for any existing flightsim, more of an additional offering. Simmers vary in their specific favourite aspects of a sim from highly detailed planes, to as realistic as possible flight model, to must have seasons, to those who love scenic flying with the emphasis on scenery vs flight realism. 

We on the Orbx site must be interested in scenery as that is what Orbx produces and is a market leader in. The semantics of how realistic plane's details are  and flight models are, is another topic. You don't need to be spending money on scenery if you want to use the sim as a learning to fly tool. You would be better spending money on as sophisticated as possible planes, weather programmes etc.

 I think the sim most affected or challenged by MSFS2020 will be X-Plane. I say that because P3D is the most "mature" all round sim available. It has several AI Traffic programmes available, several Weather programmes available, large amount of planes and helicopters available in various degrees of sophistication, it has 4 seasons and is now having photoreal scenery being offered by Orbx (albeit summer only for now) Some, none or all of those attributes of P3D are not available to the 2 other major flightsims like X-Plane or Aerofly (FSX not included in the conversation although still popular with some simmers) and nor are they yet offered I believe in MSFS2020.

So, if you fall into the category of being a scenic flyer then I can see MSFS202 having a serious attraction. If you want to learn to fly I would suggest X-Plane (limited sophisticated planes but they do exist, just not in numbers), and finally if you want an all round mature, "does all" sim then stick with P3D. That doesn't mean though that it has to be your only sim.

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3 hours ago, Jon Clarke said:

I don't think MSFS2020 will be replacement for any existing flightsim, more of an additional offering. Simmers vary in their specific favourite aspects of a sim from highly detailed planes, to as realistic as possible flight model, to must have seasons, to those who love scenic flying with the emphasis on scenery vs flight realism. 

We on the Orbx site must be interested in scenery as that is what Orbx produces and is a market leader in. The semantics of how realistic plane's details are  and flight models are, is another topic. You don't need to be spending money on scenery if you want to use the sim as a learning to fly tool. You would be better spending money on as sophisticated as possible planes, weather programmes etc.

 I think the sim most affected or challenged by MSFS2020 will be X-Plane. I say that because P3D is the most "mature" all round sim available. It has several AI Traffic programmes available, several Weather programmes available, large amount of planes and helicopters available in various degrees of sophistication, it has 4 seasons and is now having photoreal scenery being offered by Orbx (albeit summer only for now) Some, none or all of those attributes of P3D are not available to the 2 other major flightsims like X-Plane or Aerofly (FSX not included in the conversation although still popular with some simmers) and nor are they yet offered I believe in MSFS2020.

So, if you fall into the category of being a scenic flyer then I can see MSFS202 having a serious attraction. If you want to learn to fly I would suggest X-Plane (limited sophisticated planes but they do exist, just not in numbers), and finally if you want an all round mature, "does all" sim then stick with P3D. That doesn't mean though that it has to be your only sim.

 

I sort of disagree.. while i think p3d / x plane will be around for a little while longer, i do believe they will become left in the dark once all the above mentioned starts seeing its way into the new sim. Maybe about two years (guesstimate) after the release of 2020 most people will have moved on, the other sims will just look and feel outdated and according to the recent previews it already sort of does// edit ( it actually really does look out of date, not sort of. :P)

 

Unless p3d and x plane decide to up their game then i think and once again my personal opinion, p3d and x plane will be left behind.. Why? because we all have to admit... us simmers need a new sim with current technology.. we've been left with basically three options DCS / X Plane and P3D and i honestly think the best looking and best feeling one is DCS out of the three, but that is a just military/combat sim. Its been a long time, we've waited long enough and now it looks like we are getting it.. an all new sim using the latest tech and taking the most advantage of our hardware that we spend so much money on. 

 

I think developers like ORBX still have a big playing field in the new sim, i cant wait to see some Orbx airports in the new sim. And i think most developers will eventually start doing the drops like we've seen over the past few years and what i mean by that is dropping support for platforms that are not relevant anymore.. from what i saw in the previews, if the earth can look like that in the sim, the planes fly as they have been hyping up, the developers release high fidelity planes and airports for the sim, why on earth would anyone want to stay on p3d and xplane ?

To get only half the performance their machines are capable of? 

 

I guess we will have to wait and see how good the new sim actually is once we get our hands on it.. but this is just my personal prediction and i might be corrected in the coming months... but i really do think its the future. Business is business.

Edited by Ridvan Celik
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I wonder how the future will be for AFS2 from IPACS. This Sim is also based on an advanced technology than FSX/P3D but not yet a full sim because not(yet) AI, ATC, Weather module,....

It shows lifelike HD-photoreal sceneries and keeps FPS high enough for fluent flight on even lesser highend PC's. A pitty that AFS2 is actual a bit in 'standby mode', because except adds build by the community(planes and mostly extra scenery parts). There is no further progress to discover regarding the essentials of real simulation that is more than just handle a plane. And also Orbx has slowed down/stopped earlier announcement of making/releasing adds for AFS2, a pitty. 

 

So, yes I agree with the comment above of 'Ridvan Celik' that MSFS from next year on will put all other current flightsimulators in the shadow based on what I have read and see sofar.

Edited by ikbenik
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Like many Flight Simmers, I’m curious and excited about the upcoming sim.

 

That being said, many of the features that are most exciting visually (ortho-based scenery with well-placed autogen and custom POIs) already exist today in the form of XP11 + Orbx TE Washington, Oregon, etc.

 

I can achieve a locked, smooth 30 FPS and it looks fabulous, even with my far from too powerful rig.

 

One thing that concerns me a bit is the use of Bing imagery...it looks great...usually...but the imagery near me is a mix of awful winter browns plus summer green in some areas - so hopefully they have some good colored (and cloudless!) imagery for every area cached someplace.

 

The great thing about Orbx airport content is that it can be (with a little work) placed in any sim and given new life, as we’ve seen with classic PNW sceneries in XP11 TE.

 

In any case, exciting times to be in the hobby!

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

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What makes anyone think MSFS is going to affect P3D in LMs terms?  The hobby simmer (for want of a better description) isn't their target market - Exhibit A is A2As May update.  We're probably a tolerated, sometimes useful and usually fickle corner.  They're not going to shut it down if we all stump off to MSFS.

 

Those who like more historic flight might find themselves stuck in MSFS.  I can't imagine it will contain the existing ground based nav aids that still date from the mid 2000's in P3D that were so necessary for getting around in the days of steam.

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I can see myself moving to MSFS 2020 as long as A2A aircraft are available, and I can (re?)purchase my favorite ORBX airports. Personally, the allure of 100% world coverage with photogrammetry geometry is overwhelming. It's exactly what I was hoping to happen sometime in the next decade - and it's here already! 

 

I suggest everyone watch the MSFS 2020 Developer Q&A if you haven't already. Answers a ton of questions, and honestly, helped me overcome some of my initial skepticism.

 

 

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I think there is an inevitability about this. Much the same as streaming television has changed forever the way we watch TV. Whether or not the other platforms adopt the technology, I fear there will be no going back.

One only has to compare FS4 to P3Dv4.5 to see the immense changes in a (comparatively) short time. Also, as far as the people saying that they are happy where they are with their sims, and won't be adopting the new ones, I presume there must be lots of happy simmers still using FS4.

I'm a loyal ORBX and A2A user, but I'll be going to MSFS2020 in a heartbeat, and I bet many reading this will too. If not immediately, eventually.

Edited by tigermothpilot
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I will be staying with P3Dv4.XXX for seasons and my aircraft and addons that you will not see in MSFS for two years at least I suspect, and will be purchasing ORBX OLC when they are released, I will admit I did not purchase the TE none season scenery.

Regards Ray Fry.

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If you've not seen today's 'insider'update, here's a screen shot which shows the complexity of the buildings generated in MS 2020, and the interaction with the weather very well.
 

MS 2020 'World'.jpg

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Yes and also a few seconds of Sydney, Australia I’m pretty sure... without the harbour bridge, centre point tower and the opera house haha....it’s only pre alpha I guess. The rest is looking good though! Can’t wait. 

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Personally - the commentary on this video only seems to prove that no matter what computer you have - or internet connection

we will be offered a choice of sim that appears to be way ahead of all others

 

After the last videos were shown - Gobsmacked was a common expression   - what are we going to say about this?.

Of course things are missing - they are  POIs and take time to integrate and Yes  Sydney is devoid of the bridge and Opera House

but Brisbane is brilliant - even without the Westgate bridge - but the Gabba is there!! 

 

What will the rest of Australia look like - even the Melbournians will probably - want to see what MS2020 will give them - and as I said

personally - I don't need to wait for The Gold Coast - I have the Orbx to keep me happy - I only wish it was for Xplane :rolleyes:

 

 

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Not  sure about this statement   but it appears from this  latest update that the big winner  will be  the Telco Companies .  With the  possibility of up to  2 PetaBytes  of downloads  I think we  be stretching  a little to far  our hardware and most of all our internet connections . From what I understand  if you live  in an area  with  a reduced  coverage  their is no hope  to  play this  Sim  to its full capacity

In the mean time  thank you  ORBX to give  us sceneries that  are playable   with the most modest equipment and connection 

Any thought on this development?

Charles   

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I agree with Yamba in this.  We will have to judge whether the bandwidth restricted version we will get in much of Australia, through the be-cursed NBA or arthritic ADSL2  will be sufficient to match 4.5.  Or whether we are in an area where we can go the 5G way, but pricey (and where it is available).  I wonder where the perfect reception spots in the world will be...Germany?  New York? LA? There won't be too many in Aus.

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Looks like someone started a new thread after the latest vid was commented on in the old thread

and one comment was no Bridge or opera house on the Sydney bit.

I made a comment thus:-

 

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  • John Heaton
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"Personally - the commentary on this video only seems to prove that no matter what computer you have - or internet connection

we will be offered a choice of sim that appears to be way ahead of all others

 

After the last videos were shown - Gobsmacked was a common expression   - what are we going to say about this?.

Of course things are missing - they are  POIs and take time to integrate and Yes  Sydney is devoid of the bridge and Opera House

but Brisbane is brilliant - even without the Story bridge - but the Gabba is there!! 

 

What will the rest of Australia look like - even the Melbournians will probably - want to see what MS2020 will give them - and as I said

personally - I don't need to wait for The Gold Coast - I have the Orbx to keep me happy - I only wish it was for X plane :rolleyes:"

 

As to bandwidth - so far we have been streaming  and watching these videos without too many problems - at least I haven't @ 50Mps - and this bloke seems to say that the sim will adjust itself to what bandwidth you are getting - and what your  comp is capable of anyway.

 

I have also said elsewhere in these discussions - that in Australia -  Foxtel - are already streaming 4K HDR to my TV - albeit via Their/My satellite dish

- and they are on record as saying they will be providing the same Bandwidth - by the same method - to households - with the dish - in 2021 - having proven that - it will stream 4K HDR - we will have no worries ---- (The dish costs nothing!!)+(  and current Australian Max bandwidths of 100Mps cant get near 4K TV streaming)

So Australia - get "dished" :blink:

Edited by John Heaton

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1 hour ago, YAMBA1 said:

if you live  in an area  with  a reduced  coverage  their is no hope  to  play this  Sim  to its full capacity

..the cashed option mentioned seems to suggests otherwise.

It's not my decision, but it would be better if there was only one thread for this topic so we can keep abreast of the facts emerging.

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Hmmm.

Looking at my approach so far, I'd rather stick with P3D for some time. I have whole bunch of addons and will likely buy more. Then I upgrade hardware onece or twice, hopefully will also take advantage of probable discounts on various P3D products along the way.

In couple of years from now I'll get that MSFS.

 

I bet the monthly subscription will not be justifiable for me, hardware requirements will be way above what I have now and there will be little complex A/Cs to fly. So - I do not care that much. I still have both FSX and P3D on my PC. And I spend as much time in FSX as I do in P3D. Thanks to ORBX policy I do not have to buy their scenries twice, and believe it or not - this is key reason I buy sceneries mostly from them.

 

All in all - while I love to watch all these MSFS clips, I am strongly convinced I will stick with Current Gen for a while.

Hell - I am still woroking on my PS3 and Xbox360 backlog ;)

 

&

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13 minutes ago, craigeaglefire said:

guys,

 

it is just another flight sim...

 

take it - or leave it the choice is yours!

 

NOT even available YET


Basically true, but there are signs that it may be more than “just another flight sim”.  Also, Tech Alpha 1 available for testing by a selected few from 24 October, and Tech Alpha 2 from mid-November.  Cheers.

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24 minutes ago, craigeaglefire said:

why not have all the flight sims?

 

easiest that way!

 

;)


Yep, many people do that.  I prefer just one because of time and money.  But each to their own here for sure.  Cheers.

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 I hope that this company that we've built our current simulation hobby with, will continue to provide excellent products for the existing platforms for as long as they can feasibly maintain a level of profitability on those platforms. If products for those platforms are not being bought though, then in all probability, the company will have to shift their priorities. Basics of business right? Either you stay the course and risk being left behind or you learn, adapt and stay competitive inside the newer technology that users want to experience. 

 

 While we've not heard directly from JV and the company yet on what ORBX's plan for FS2020 is, JV did direct us to listen for ourselves to a video presentation where the developers were asked about how the new simulator team wants to work with the current third party developers. These are companies like ORBX and others who've been producing product for the FSX/P3D platform for the last 10 years or so.

 

  I think we'll see a great new base simulator platform that we can fly in and use on various levels based on what our own hardware is or will be. I'm confident that there will be a place for third party developers in that world and I'm pretty excited to see where the future takes this hobby.

 

Brad

Edited by ba43
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