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2 minutes ago, Ridvan Celik said:

I had a thought last night when looking out the window and i think a specific addon does this in x plane, but it would be nice to have the low clouds illuminated over dense city areas with lots of lights...would look very nice on approach. What do you guys think?

It would look very nice indeed, realistic

Cheers

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Just read the new announcement and they confirm it will be a simulator and have 3rd party developer support. I think this great news for companies like Orbx. Read it on the official website.   

Guys, I know that everyone's jumped on the MSFS hype now and can't wait to get his hands on the new sim. I agree that this is pretty exciting. BUT... let me introduce you to a somewhat more realistic

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5 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

I had a thought last night when looking out the window and i think a specific addon does this in x plane, but it would be nice to have the low clouds illuminated over dense city areas with lots of lights...would look very nice on approach. What do you guys think?

I am with you and more. More generally, the atmospheric light rendering needs some heavy rehab. Sunlight doesn't shade the cloud colors as it should. People rave about PBR reflections on physical materials (even on tarmac asphalt where I never saw any  !) but a proper illumination of  clouds  is still to be desired. People like Rex, HiFi  do their best but the core engine needs to be revisited.

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On 6/20/2019 at 3:53 PM, Ridvan Celik said:

Just read the new announcement and they confirm it will be a simulator and have 3rd party developer support. I think this great news for companies like Orbx. Read it on the official website. 

 

 

Im pretty sure microsoft is aware of orbx the best scenery developers although orbx night lighting is badd lol

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On 6/21/2019 at 1:27 PM, Matthew Kane said:

Remember when FSX came out in October 2006 it took developers until around 2011 or so for FSX to really come of age, so that was about a 4 to 5 year process.

 

Microsoft Flight Simulator will release in 2020 which means potentially it will take until 2024 for third party development to catch up. I am looking forward to what it brings but I also know that I am still well invested in P3D for many years to come as well. 

But they learned from their mistakes already i dont think it’ll be the same this time around 

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On 6/23/2019 at 11:25 PM, Matthew Kane said:

If anyone is using Windows 10 you can hit the window key and type in Maps and open the Maps app, from their on the top right corner you can switch to Aerial and middle of the right hand side switch to 3D view. This is the scenery they were using in the demo so you can have a look at it for yourself. For example you can compare Downtown Houston and the stadium to the demo video and everything matches up including all those cars around the stadium.

 

What I am hoping for, as that is really good default scenery for a sim, better then what they have done in the past but it does have its flaws, hopefully third party developers can also suppress regions and we can have the option of purchasing third party airports or regions etc, which would be great as not all the world is in 3D on their servers. A lot of the world is still missing in 3D so lots of work to do if this is the scenery source. Close up of this scenery can get very clunky so having 3D Models around airports is better, but time consuming, which is an area that Third Party Developers could certainly contribute.  Another area not known is if the default scenery will have seasons.  Not sure how any of this will work yet but time will tell.

 

Also if you look closely at KLAX in the demo and look at KLAX on that Maps server it does not match up, which suggests that airports have been redone with 3D Modeling methods instead of the clunky mesh used in the default servers. Feel free to play around as well

But did you see those giraffes though?

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1 hour ago, OscarGrant said:

Im pretty sure microsoft is aware of orbx the best scenery developers although orbx night lighting is badd lol

I’ve actually managed to get quite nice night lights with the latest p3d update and the use of the FTX lights config tool... my current PTA preset helps too. 

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2 hours ago, OscarGrant said:

But they learned from their mistakes already i dont think it’ll be the same this time around 

My post was about FSX and it's third party development timeline, I don't recall any mistakes from Microsoft regarding FSX, as a matter of fact it was an extremely successful release and still used today by many, as well as P3D its predecessor. 

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3 hours ago, Ridvan Celik said:

I’ve actually managed to get quite nice night lights with the latest p3d update and the use of the FTX lights config tool... my current PTA preset helps too. 

foreal? can you send me your settings so i can i see ? or just tell me what your pta urban night light settings are set too and the autogen emission settings

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2 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

My post was about FSX and it's third party development timeline, I don't recall any mistakes from Microsoft regarding FSX, as a matter of fact it was an extremely successful release and still used today by many, as well as P3D its predecessor. 

You mean "P3D it's successor.". But I agree .  I'm still very happily flying FSX, as improved by ORBX, augmented by AS16, and with ATC support from PilotEdge or VoxATC (depending on where I'm flying).  I will eventually upgrade to P3D, but I'm still happy with what I have.

 

Ken

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I'm pretty sure microsoft is aware of orbx the best scenery developers although orbx night lighting is badd lol

 

The street lights look pretty realistic to me in TrueEarth GB South. I guess that there could be more illumination of the terrain itself underneath those lights, but I have seen plenty of "baked in" light patches in terrain scenery to know that the effect can look awful at times. I prefer the more subtle approach.

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On 6/24/2019 at 7:25 AM, Matthew Kane said:

If anyone is using Windows 10 you can hit the window key and type in Maps and open the Maps app, from their on the top right corner you can switch to Aerial and middle of the right hand side switch to 3D view. This is the scenery they were using in the demo so you can have a look at it for yourself. For example you can compare Downtown Houston and the stadium to the demo video and everything matches up including all those cars around the stadium.

Just tried this with my local area in Hampshire, UK.  The house where my friends have live for more than ten years is still a building site, and apparently my house is a shed in the middle of a field.  I hope MS 2020 uses something a little more up to date.

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On 7/2/2019 at 12:28 PM, daibach said:

Just tried this with my local area in Hampshire, UK.  The house where my friends have live for more than ten years is still a building site, and apparently my house is a shed in the middle of a field.  I hope MS 2020 uses something a little more up to date.

just tried it for where I live, my house is 9 years old, not only does it show but alos our 2 vans are parked outside.....

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On 6/23/2019 at 2:13 PM, carlosqr said:

I just pray for all Orbx products bought to be compatible with this new one, it would be a blast if they are but an absolute frustration if not

There is one thing you might consider, as I am...IF...all of the world, is true-to-life- digital data...and the Engine will process it...that will mean, that all of the airports, should have all structure in play...right out of the 'box'....terminals, out-buildings,  taxi ways...runways...it should all be seamless. 

 

This is exciting...I think that even a 700,800,900 series graphics card, has underused computational resources, that will handle this.  Also, if it is live download...and I have perceived that it is...I just upgraded yesterday to a mind-blowing download Internet speed of 380 Mbps in anticipation of live-x/y fly over download.  With this approach, if you will excuse my pun..., having large G card, on-board memory is of no longer the hold-back...except for current PrePard and XPlane scenarios. 

 

 I run a GTX 1070 with 8 GB's of on-board graphic memory, and that will be more than sufficient, to handle any 20 miles surrounding my x/y of my plane, in real time download, with the ***MASSIVE*** per square mile detail that we see in the trailer. What you will need, to be smooth, is your Internet Package download speed...THAT will be the 'new memory' goal to hit.  Like I said, for a few dollars more, I upgraded yesterday from 120 Mbps, to 380 Mbps (over 200 times faster download put-through)...of which is still blowing me away, as lighting fast page refreshes...and nVidia Driver packages that takes not more, than 10 seconds to download,...as the download progress circle icon, whips around its pole....  In otherwords...with a GTX 1070 8 GB card...and a download speed pushing just under 400 Mbps...Microsoft 2020...this guy is ready!  Bring 'er on!

 

 

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One great issue is not part of this presentation, the HW-specs needed to run the VFR-flights as shown in the highly appreciated video. At least with the shown weather and clouds above an incredible real looking scenery at non-stuttering FPS. So, what will be the minimum HW-needs(processor, memory, videocard, storage) to fly in at least same fluency as in the video?

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To be honest I cannot understand why people buy several sims. I have one. Prepar3d v4.5, and am totally satisfied with it.. the Orbx scenery is great, the aircraft are eminently suitable to my style of flying, and although my older system is maxed out, Prepar3d  4.5 runs smoothly and beautifully on it.

As an old guy, I get many many hours of pleasure from this single simulator.. why in **** name would anyone need anything more? Terry.

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49 minutes ago, teecee said:

To be honest I cannot understand why people buy several sims. I have one. Prepar3d v4.5, and am totally satisfied with it.. the Orbx scenery is great, the aircraft are eminently suitable to my style of flying, and although my older system is maxed out, Prepar3d  4.5 runs smoothly and beautifully on it.

As an old guy, I get many many hours of pleasure from this single simulator.. why in **** name would anyone need anything more? Terry.

Kinda missing the point here Terry, it's progress.

Don't be that guy who resists change and progress because they are so heavily invested in a legacy platform.

 

On that same logic we should still all be using Windows XP and Flight Sim 98

 

And have you seen the pre-alpha footage....its jaw-dropping.

Edited by gordonhutchison
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1 hour ago, Saif Salahuddin said:

ZL19 across the world!! :oThat's the stuff dreams are made of! 

...and that's why I went over 200 times faster download put through bandwidth, yesterday----->....baby...bring that Z19, in every sq mile,...can't wait!  Drooling...making a mess in my lap...and if it's a monthly subscript fee...I'm good with that...for it is the world in virtual for the first time, no-barrier-held, ground and above-ground detail (!!!!),...and will always be updated, IN LIVE TIME....with perhaps the subscriber...not even being aware of constant scenery upgrading, being done before their eyes....wow...am I excited!!!!!!   You are no longer held hostage to the latest and greatest Graphics card...compelled to get as much on-board memory, at each whack of $$$$ hemorrhaging from your plastic...'I owe, I owe, so off to work I go...' card... (large smile).

 

"OMG...did I make the right decision yesterday to up my game, in bandwidth:  WOW!!!!!"

 

Adaptive Streaming

Adaptive streaming will provide the most detailed experience possible based on your bandwidth. Specifics were not talked about during the presentation, but it was made clear that the simulator will monitor requirements and only use what was available. Based on some of the menu options visible in our hands-on, there were internet options. When speaking to the developers one-on-one, they said that the level of detail will adaptively change depending on the strength of your connection and how much of the data you could download at what speeds.So for those worried that having a slow internet connection will impact your frame rate, that won’t necessarily be the case. However, microdetails such as texturing in cornfields or visible road markings may not render in as much detail if your connection is weak.

Simply put, your level of detail will vary depending on your bandwidth, but the core simulation experience will remain intact. Or as Lioel put it “the better your bandwidth, the better the experience.”

 
Edited by Orbx Flyer
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Orbx has done soooo much for FSX and P3D and for all of us Flight Simmers that I just can't believe MS would not involve them in the development of MSFS2020. I don't know why but I'm getting this niggling feeling that the 'surprise announcement ' to be made by JV/Orbx at the 2019 Flight Sim Expo at Cosford is related to their future involvement with MS. And how great would that be! 

Also, on a lighter note, this entire  thread would've been deleted long back if they were not involved in some way or the other! :D

Edited by Saif Salahuddin
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Here's a bit of how it all developed at MS and what we can expect from it:

"How We Got Here
Longtime Microsoft employee Jorg Neumann was working with developers from French firm Asobo on a project for Microsoft HoloLens, a wearable display that offers immersive “mixed reality” experiences. The project was a virtual tour of Machu Picchu in Peru using imagery from Bing to completely re-create the famous site. This gave Jorg an idea: If they could create convincing real-world scenery of one area, could they do that for the whole planet? If they could, then they’d have the basis for a remarkable and long-awaited return of Flight Simulator.

That was about three years ago. And, as it turned out, yes, they could model the entire planet, and that scenery looks, in a word, stunning. Jorg discussed the idea with one of Microsoft’s general managers, Shannon Loftis, a longtime pilot who told him to go for it. Jorg’s team started to grow, it produced a demo using Seattle scenery, and, with Shannon’s support, a pitch became a product team that has since grown to nearly 200 people.

“Everybody was super supportive,” Jorg said. “That’s just the way it is. I think there is a true love in Microsoft for Flight Sim, and maybe it’s subconscious, but it is who we are. It is in the fiber of the company’s being. It is older than Windows. I think there is a pride that comes with it, and I think seeing it come back in a meaningful way, I think makes lots of people proud.”

Asobo’s second step was to review all of the existing code in FSX to determine what to adapt, what to upgrade, what to emulate, and how to integrate a simulation system with its visualization engine. And Asobo’s first step? To buy everyone in the company an introductory flight lesson to make sure they had a firsthand taste for what they were going to build. Now the company estimates that something like 60 percent of the team is actively involved in flight training.

This was especially important to Asobo CEO and Co-Founder — not to mention avid pilot — Sebastian Wloch.

“Having spent so many hours flying in real life, I think it totally changed the picture,” he said. “When you are in the gaming industry, you are tweaking the reality in order to make something interesting. Here, we have to be as close as possible to the reality to bring something interesting. … The first thing and the most important thing I understood is flying in the real world is fun and interesting. It’s actually a great experience, and this immediately triggered the fact that if we just emulate reality in the best way possible, we don’t have to add anything …. There’s no need to make it a game.”

A Whole New World
Like many of its predecessors, the new simulator models the entire planet, including something like 40,000 airports worldwide. I used to brag in presentations about FSX that we started with 2 terabytes of scenery data, and then compressed that to fit onto a couple of DVDs in a box. The world in the new version consists of 2 petabytes of data — yes, that’s one thousand times bigger. The scenery is built on Bing satellite and aerial imagery, augmented with cool buzzwordy stuff like photogrammetric 3D modeling and multiple other data sources, all of which is streamed via Microsoft’s Azure cloud service. Yes, the word streaming means you’ll need an internet connection, but you can download and pre-cache scenery areas for offline use, or even fly in a fully offline mode.

All of this data results in an environment that is often breathtakingly lifelike, and it means that the entire planet is effectively what we used to call a “high detail area,” only more realistic. For the tech-savvy, many of the scenery areas boast a resolution of 3 centimeters per pixel, while the default in FSX was about 1 meter per pixel. Throw in 1.5 trillion trees, individual blades of grass modeled in 3D, and a complete overhaul of lighting and shadows, and the result is an unprecedented level of detail for a flight simulator of any kind. True VFR flight, day or night, with real-world landmarks is now possible everywhere on the planet."

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I am thinking that since the scenery is 'Augmented' from Bing Maps created "on the fly" and it has 40,000 default airports that doesn't sound like much opportunity for development....

However if those 40,000 airports are rather generic looking in the default package this would be the opportunity for third party developers to create premium third party airports, much like we already do. The days of large regional scenery development may be over but local premium airports may still have its place.

I would like to see our good friends at ORBX continue to play a part in the future.

Edited by Matthew Kane
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26 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

I am thinking that since the scenery is 'Augmented' from Bing Maps created "on the fly" and it has 40,000 default airports that doesn't sound like much opportunity for development....

However if those 40,000 airports are rather generic looking in the default package this would be the opportunity for third party developers to create premium third party airports, much like we already do. The days of large regional scenery development may be over but local premium airports may still have its place.

I would like to see our good friends at ORBX continue to play a part in the future.

 

I think the developers of Airports would still be a required necessity, as I dont believe the airports will be as detailed to what we have now from ORBX, Flightbeam, flytampa etc., its the landclass base scenery developers (regions) which will become defunct with this ability in 2020...

 

From What I can see it will allow Airport designer to only concentrate on the field without the need to cover the surrounding areas (which might quicken up the development process?)

 

I guess we will all know much more in the coming months?

 

My major concern is how much effort Aircraft designers will take to get their products working with this sim, if they choose to go down this path. While Im happy to move with the change  at some stage,  I need my FSLabs A320, QW 787, all my PMDG acft and TFDI B717 to work in order to actually make said move ;) 

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Someone once asked - Why are Microsoft back in the market for Flight Sims after introducing it in the first place

- Then 2 disasters - and then dumping it on Dovetail/Steam where it has actually spawned a few more Simulator producers 

and companies like Orbx  - Caranado etc have infused more life into the product. 

 

Big mistake Microsoft! - and 5 years ago they realised that we had better see what is involved in getting back in the business.

Set up a team of developers - rewrite the old software - bring in Bing maps that we already own - cancel all agreements made about the use of the base software

and think of how to use our live internet skills in streaming to X box. Stick it all together into a pre Alpha demo - that will blow the socks off media guys we invite to try it out.

 

This video alone by Frogelines  - of all the ones on U-Tube in the last 16 hours  - has at this moment - 100,752 views and 915 Comments

and Microsoft must be delighted 92% of those viewers were moved to comment and a quick survey showed almost 100% Positive vibes

 

A lesson to all businesses - that Dale Carnegie and Peter Drucker - would agree  -  that the question of how to conduct the first stage

 of Marketing any product has been achieved already and the result -  "That the potential for an innovative Flight Simulator is a given!"

 

Now I know that my hardware won't need a huge upgrade - just a kick along in the streaming mp/s - and changing my monthly fee to MS PC/Xbox

for unlimited access to the gaming - to the streaming fees for that kind of VFR - and a lot cheaper than the price of an hours tuition at the flying club

i.e I will really only need to buy Streaming time for the areas of UK - and the Oceana/SE Asia

 

Oh yes - on my 43" 4K - HDR - Hisense TV - as my monitor - it was SOOOH  real - and I think I noticed -  that someone was using Tracker IR - but then again

- did I hear that head movement is included?? - and I just loved the Garmin 1000(?) newest displays - especially on approach.

 

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Hello,

 

the news is one thing but the

"they will be doing this, that and the other",

"they must be doing this, that and the other",

"they should be doing this, that and the other because I know best"

the "I want this, that and the other posts"

and the "I must be able to use my (non-Orbx) products in it"

have a place elsewhere.

 

By all means post links to actual hard news about the new simulator.

 

Thanks.

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Well, after a long absence from Simming due to a major disaster with a rig set up for FXS, new rig with P3D that just didn't do it for me I am blown away with what I have seen so far. I have now purchased a top Gaming PC so bring it on Microsoft. :D

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After watching the new video on this I too was amazed at the scenery, then I thought what about companies like Orbx and others what will they do?
I read on the comments earlier that they will/might be needed to work on airfields to add to the scenery, I don't know how they work in this new sim, things like parking spots etc.
also is there a function for AI aircraft, I hate to see bare airports with no other movements?

 

I remember many years ago when FS2004 came out a lot of simmers spent a fortune on upgrading and/or buying a new PC to handle it, that seems like a joke now but it did happen, so will we see this again, whatever the cost of the new sim you may need to add the cost of upgrading the PC as well.

 

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The greatest preparation that a prospective user of the new M.S. 2020 sim can do...is up your internet download bandwidth, to the most you can get in Mbps (like 360), or can afford in $$$.  That is the one thing that will have the greatest impact, while we wait for this to RTM....

 

"When this comes out...my wife will have to slide my food under the Den door....oh yeah...."!

Edited by Orbx Flyer
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5 hours ago, Orbx Flyer said:

The greatest preparation that a prospective user of the new M.S. 2020 sim can do...is up your internet download bandwidth, to the most you can get in Mbps (like 360), or can afford in $$$.  That is the one thing that will have the greatest impact, while we wait for this to RTM....

 

Fortunately bandwith really isn't that expensive any longer. While my broadband is paid by my company, it's still only around 70 EUR for 1 Gbps/1Gbps here in Finland and that is also the bandwith I actually get. Of course it varies from country to country but still.

Edited by kitte
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