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Although generally delighted with Orbx products, I was flabbergasted to discover an egregious error in the Northern Rockies scenery -- specifically in the rendition of Yellowstone National Park, and more specifically in the rendition of the Upper and Lower Falls of the Yellowstone River.

 

As it happens, I revisited Yellowstone 2 weeks ago, and am certain of my observations.  When flying DOWNSTREAM 

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As was saying when interrupted:

 

  • Although generally delighted with Orbx products, I was flabbergasted to discover an egregious error in the Northern Rockies scenery -- specifically in the rendition of Yellowstone National Park, and more specifically in the rendition of the Upper and Lower Falls of the Yellowstone River.

 

As it happens, I revisited Yellowstone 2 weeks ago, and am certain of my observations.  When flying DOWNSTREAM in Prepar3D, I found THE FALLS WERE FALLING UPSTREAM!  IN real life, they fall DOWNSTREAM!  See attached pix for empirical proof. 

 

I understand that Orbx is an Aussie product, and that's why the cars in the Aussie scenery are on the wrong side of the road.  But I had not thought this peculiarity extended to water features. 

 

Yours in high dudgeon indeed,

 

Mac6737

 

 

Yellwstone Falls.jpg

DSCN0967.JPG

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1 hour ago, Bassman said:

I ride my wombat to the shops. Very cheap to feed as he eats roots shoots and leaves:rolleyes:

Thought that was the Kiwi bird ;):P

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"Now here in Australia we drive on the correct side of the road, as does most of the world, the US seem to be unconventional with regards to vehicles, where the driver sits on the left and drives on right hand side of the roadway, as also the unwillingness to follow the rest of the world in using Metric measures which have been in use for decades. "

 

I'm not sure why you felt you needed to make the above-quoted critical assertions regarding the United States, but I'd like to correct them.

 

1. The great majority of countries actually drive on the right side of the road. 

2. The U.S. uses both the imperial and metric system of measurements and kids learn both in school.  We do use the imperial system more in everyday life, but for most engineering, technical, military, and scientific applications we use the metric system.

 

You should study up a bit more before you make erroneous assertions about another country.

 

Dave

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Hi guys,

 

I'm a little bit baffled by the "uphill claim" as I don't see it in the sim. The effect, coded by yours truly back when dinosaurs roamed the land, consists of two parts: the falling water is essentially a movie clip loop of a waterfall photo that moves down a few feet with each frame. In addition, at the base I've placed a spray effect simulating the water vapor rising from the splash point. That vapor does drift upward some ways as it does in real life.

 

In P3D visual effects are displayed somewhat differently so the spray effect grows larger than it does in FSX. Still, it doesn't really give the effect of water flowing uphill, close-up or from a distance, at least not to my eyes.

 

FYI, Yellowstone Park is within the Central Rockies Region, not FTX Northern Rockies.

 

Cheers, Holger

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Dave,

Not sure why you commented either. Points 1 & 2 well done however unnecessary,  but thankyou for instruction, not erroneous assertions at all but humour, (visit the foyer shop) half price today only, single use or 3 pack :lol:

16 minutes ago, dave302 said:

You should study up a bit more before you make erroneous assertions about another country.

I know all this, but once again "Humour" the shop is still open, its been a slow day for such products but I am ever hopeful.

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Obviously I was joking.  Chill out, some of you, please.

 

Mac6737

 

PS to Holger --  I agree the water looks like it's falling, and the spray zone looks fine, as in real life.  My point was that these pix, including Jeff's, are taken with the aircraft heading SW -- i.e., downstream, in the same direction the river is flowing at that point to Yellowstone Lake. 

 

And right, Central Rockies.  But some of us think of that region as "northern," because we forget about Canada.  

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6 hours ago, Jeff Gilmour said:

Dave,

Not sure why you commented either. Points 1 & 2 well done however unnecessary,  but thankyou for instruction, not erroneous assertions at all but humour, (visit the foyer shop) half price today only, single use or 3 pack :lol:

I know all this, but once again "Humour" the shop is still open, its been a slow day for such products but I am ever hopeful.

 

Sorry, I didn't realize you were being humorous.  Not that I was offended or anything even if you were being serious.  I'm just a stickler for the facts and truth generally.

 

Thanks.

 

Dave

 

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19 hours ago, Jeff Gilmour said:

Now here in Australia we drive on the correct side of the road, as does most of the world, the US seem to be unconventional with regards to vehicles, where the driver sits on the left and drives on right hand side of the roadway, as also the unwillingness to follow the rest of the world in using Metric measures which have been in use for decades. Contrary to popular belief.

 

Yes it is true as been pointed out the majority of the world drives on the right side of the road. Driving on the left is the minority. Reason for this goes back to military rules on horseback when passing on a trail. English Army passed on the right and French Army passed on the left (this made it easier to spot a spy when the horse passed on the wrong side). All of Europe adopted the French Rule and Russia, Africa and through to Asia (also note Aviation and Watercraft also follow the French Rule).

 

The reason why the USA adopted the French Rule is the American Revolution, they were against the British Empire and France was the first to recognize their independence and offer military alliance and support to the Union as a developing nation. Therefore the Americans followed the French rule, and also made friends with the French, got an awesome deal with the Louisiana Purchase (more a gift then anything) and ended up with a beautiful Statue of Liberty in New York. Canada went with the French Rule to build a common North American Auto Standards with the USA (Same with electricity).

 

So remember when driving Americans are driving on the French Side and so is the majority of the world. Only England and a few former English Colonies are driving on the English side.

As for the Metric System yes it is true Americans culturally use the Imperial system however majority of production and the armed forces use Metric, therefore they learn both in school and they use both in life depending on jobs or tasks. This is why American Soldiers will say things like 'Target 3 klicks' as slang for Kilometers, military operations are in Metric as well as equipment.  Boeing, GMC Ford and Chrysler also use Metric and all the suppliers as well as pretty much anything manufactured. Local Tradies may measure things foot and inches but sometimes Metric too, depending on the specs for the job as the measurements can vary according to the customer, if they are building an addition on a house likely feet and inches, if they are building something for Disney, or Apple or any major corporation they job would be in Metric. 

Edited by Matthew Kane
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15 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

 

Yes it is true as been pointed out the majority of the world drives on the right side of the road. Driving on the left is the minority. Reason for this goes back to military rules on horseback when passing on a trail. English Army passed on the right and French Army passed on the left (this made it easier to spot a spy when the horse passed on the wrong side). All of Europe adopted the French Rule and Russia, Africa and through to Asia (also note Aviation and Watercraft also follow the French Rule).

 

The reason why the USA adopted the French Rule is the American Revolution, they were against the British Empire and France was the first to recognize their independence and offer military alliance and support to the Union as a developing nation. Therefore the Americans followed the French rule, and also made friends with the French, got an awesome deal with the Louisiana Purchase (more a gift then anything) and ended up with a beautiful Statue of Liberty in New York. Canada went with the French Rule to build a common North American Auto Standards with the USA (Same with electricity).

 

So remember when driving Americans are driving on the French Side and so is the majority of the world. Only England and a few former English Colonies are driving on the English side.

As for the Metric System yes it is true Americans culturally use the Imperial system however majority of production and the armed forces use Metric, therefore they learn both in school and they use both in life depending on jobs or tasks. This is why American Soldiers will say things like 'Target 3 klicks' as slang for Kilometers, military operations are in Metric as well as equipment.  Boeing, GMC Ford and Chrysler also use Metric and all the suppliers as well as pretty much anything manufactured. Local Tradies may measure things foot and inches but sometimes Metric too, depending on the specs for the job as the measurements can vary according to the customer, if they are building an addition on a house likely feet and inches, if they are building something for Disney, or Apple or any major corporation they job would be in Metric. 

 

Good stuff Matthew!!! Thanks for sharing!!!  I just got back from Ukraine, and as opposed to having to hire a cabby to go everywhere I was able to drive myself all around their country, using only Google Maps and Waze because they along with USA, follow as you just pointed out, the French Rule.  It was an enjoyable experience for me and I was able to save tons of money by driving myself in a foreign country that abides by the majority rule!! :D

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On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 5:07 AM, Nick Cooper said:

Pushing water uphill is just one of the many things that can be enjoyed in a simulator that

could not be in real life. I think it should be celebrated.:)

Only if you can walk on it as it is flowing uphill...…….

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On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 11:51 AM, Holger Sandmann said:

Hi guys,

 

I'm a little bit baffled by the "uphill claim" as I don't see it in the sim. The effect, coded by yours truly back when dinosaurs roamed the land, consists of two parts: the falling water is essentially a movie clip loop of a waterfall photo that moves down a few feet with each frame. In addition, at the base I've placed a spray effect simulating the water vapor rising from the splash point. That vapor does drift upward some ways as it does in real life.

 

In P3D visual effects are displayed somewhat differently so the spray effect grows larger than it does in FSX. Still, it doesn't really give the effect of water flowing uphill, close-up or from a distance, at least not to my eyes.

 

FYI, Yellowstone Park is within the Central Rockies Region, not FTX Northern Rockies.

 

Cheers, Holger

Holger,

I don't think you saw my reply in this thread, and I can well understand why one of your involvement would not track every single posting that referred to you.  But I hope my point was not misunderstood:  The Yellowstone falls look fine.  It's just that they are pointed in the wrong direction.  At the point on the river shown in my pix and Jeff's, I am prepared to testify under oath from recent personal recent observation, that the river is flowing IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION from that depicted in the sim.

And thanks for all your contributions!

 

Mac6737 

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Hi Mac,


I'm still a little baffled that you believe the water is flowing in the wrong direction,  particularly over the Falls, where in my pictures it shows (though admittedly not so well when trying to describe an animation) that the water flow or animation in my FSX DX9 setup is flowing in the correct direction, Downhill from Lake Yellowstone to the Upper Falls (both of them), then into Yellowstone Grand Canyon cutting its way onward to the lower country of Gardener, Pray & Livingston then onward to the sea. I'll admit that the Water animation on the lake and river sections does seem to travel sometimes in a crossflow and even a backflow (making it look like the water is travelling uphill back to the lake above the first falls). But for the water animation (Flow direction) over the falls looks to be heading in the right direction, (Downstream from lake to sea). 
The Lake River and Sea wave/water animation in FSX does seem to move in one consistent direction depending on your direction of travel, if you look closely as you fly over the river the animation will alter with direction of travel, and lake water will consistently come from east to west. Wiggly rivers such as Yellowstone, the animation will seem to crossflow and even backflow, but its just an animation.
I don't know if the water animation behaves differently in FSX DX10 mode with its "Enhanced wave animation") or even if it is better or worse in P3D, essentially I  am using FSX in DX9 mode with FSWC and modified "Water normals" (OceanHeight20FieldLayer - texture sets) where the water animation direction is consistent and water falls flow in a downhill direction.
 

I have made you a little show, with 2 Pictures, 2 videos, and a (Google Earth KMZ (attached below) Yellowstone Lake River Falls-Elevation flow.kmz).
The pictures show an overhead of Yellowstone Lake River & Falls with the blue direction arrows on one showing the natural direction of flow, the other shows similar but has a view of the Google Earth Track and elevation Profile, You can view the track and profile by saving the attached KMZ then doubleclicking it to add it to your Google Earth "My Places" you will see that there are new entries in your GE left menu (Yellowstone Lake River Falls-Elevation flow.kmz) added to the bottom of the menu list. If you choose The "Yellowstone River "Path" track that I have layed in, (by "right mouse click") an option for "Show Elevation Profile" will come up left mouse click on that option , you will see in the lower portion of your GE screen an elevation track and animation, if you move your mouse pointer over the elevation track/profile (Pink Gradient) you will see a RED arrow on the GE map display, (Depending on your zoom level on the map) as you move your mouse from High elevation (The lake) to low elevation (The river Canyon below the falls and onward towards Livingston) you will see your map move automatically along the purple river path to follow the elevation track. Its a cool GE animation of the elevation from lake to lowland over the falls the animation shows the elevation progression along each segment of the Path from High to Low elevation.


The first video starts below the falls (Low elevation) and follows upstream towards the lake (Higher elevation).

The second video starts on the lake (High Elevation) and follows the river over the falls (Low elevation), and on to Livingston & lowlands.

I think you will see the quality water animation best if you view the video in HD, either in the embedded video here fullscreen or on youtube. Look carefully at the falls where the animation is perfect flowing from above the falls to below, the river sections then go back to east to west animation, depending on direction of travel.

I lost a little video quality after the YT upload for some reason (might be the Nvidia DSR resolution adjustment or just what happens now on TY but viewed in HD should be good enough. The actual capture with NV ShadowPlay was perfect crystal clear and not jerky at all.

Yellowstone-river-flow-direction.jpg
 

GE-River-Yellowstone-Lake-River-Falls-tr

 

 

 

Yellowstone Lake River Falls-Elevation flow track.kmz

Edited by Jeff Gilmour
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