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active CityScene Orlando.....Something's Not Right.....Or,


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2 hours ago, Matt McGee said:

Perhaps I need to update from my current P3Dv4.2, because I don't have a "scenery" option.

 

I believe it was added in 4.3 or 4.4.  Definitely wasn't there in 4.1, and I remember the changelog mentioning it in one of the more recent updates.

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Hi Guys,   First, the goal of these Cityscenes is to keep all load times under 5 minutes max.    I will give you a little background history on things regarding the beta testing of this prod

Matt.   I think there is something else going on unique to your system.   Orlando should have very little if any impact on KNUW load times.      I have been struggling with find a way to exp

Is this going to be the way of life now with these large file scenery's? I can see turning off scenery that your not using but to turn the ORBX libraries off just for this area to get better loading t

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11 hours ago, W2DR said:

 

Not that great for me Paul. I fly it in RL several times a year. My frustration level with this scenery, though, has been exceeded..........Doug

 

If you fly for real then you will spend a great deal of time planning your flight before you take off, often amounting to hours by the time you tick all the boxes.  All that most solutions offered here demand is that youtake a few short minutes to set up the scenery, similar to an abbreviated version of a real world flight plan.  Surely that's not an onerous hoop to jump through to enjoy cutting edge scenery in your sim?

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Aside from the loading time issue -

Holy-moley! Allan, you seem to have placed EVERY single object taller than 7ft into this scenery!

I just entered Orlando overflying Disney World, where even the zillion visitors are depicted (as ground texture, for god's sake, not people-flow... ;) ).

After a first flight (without any recognizable loss of FPSs!) my summary is: It is a mind-boggingly awesome scenery!

Thanks a lot for THAT work!

Michael.

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4 hours ago, John Dow said:

 

If you fly for real then you will spend a great deal of time planning your flight before you take off, often amounting to hours by the time you tick all the boxes.  All that most solutions offered here demand is that youtake a few short minutes to set up the scenery, similar to an abbreviated version of a real world flight plan.  Surely that's not an onerous hoop to jump through to enjoy cutting edge scenery in your sim?

 

Maybe for most folks John, but one of the things I enjoy most about the sim world is being able to just sit down, push a couple of buttons and fly the airplane. I have no desire to tick a bunch of boxes beforehand. Different strokes for different folks...................

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3 minutes ago, W2DR said:

 

Maybe for most folks John, but one of the things I enjoy most about the sim world is being able to just sit down, push a couple of buttons and fly the airplane. I have no desire to tick a bunch of boxes beforehand. Different strokes for different folks...................

 

True, however the FSX P3D engine, now well over a decade old, was never designed for the scenery technology that is being developed today.  Until there;'s a breakthrough by LM or whoever, to enjoy some of the scenery that is being developed now, you will need to make some adjustments.  If not, then you can stay behind the eight ball and enjoy what you want to.

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Then I'll just have to stay behind I guess. And I fully intend to enjoy only what I want to enjoy.The eye-candy isn't all that important to me in scheme of things anyway. As I've said before, to me, flight simming has always been more about navigation and procedures. When using any sim product, scenery or otherwise, becomes a "chore" I just stop using it.

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On 1/14/2019 at 9:59 AM, W2DR said:

...maybe it's just me. CityScene Orlando installed fine. Files verify OK and the scenery.cfg entry looks right. But.....it just won't load. This is the third try to get KMCO to come up and the Loading Terrain Data slider is stuck at the dreaded 6%. And I mean stuck. As I type this it's been stuck on 6% for 23 minutes. And it does it every time. P3Dv4.4 is responding...CPU is 10-15% and the physical memory usage is going up (very, very slowly). Anybody else seen this or have any ideas?..........Doug

Mine does the same thing but will all scenery.  6% then 20 minutes later it loads P3D.  I'll bet it's P3D.

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7 minutes ago, Jack Sawyer said:

Mine does the same thing but will all scenery.  6% then 20 minutes later it loads P3D.  I'll bet it's P3D.

Is the 20 minute wait time just for the CityScene Orlando , or is that for any Orbx scenery starting point Jack ? .

 

John

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10 minutes ago, BradB said:

Is the 20 minute wait time just for the CityScene Orlando , or is that for any Orbx scenery starting point Jack ? .

 

John

The entire sim, as I add new areas it has slowed down P3D's loading considerably.  I can time it next time I boot the sim but honestly I think it's over 20 minutes.  I can literally go downstairs and boil water for tea, brew a cup and come back and it's still loading.  I think Orlando is what broke the camel's back.  I may have to very reluctantly go back to using SCE (Scenery Config Editor) it's free and worked great under 32 but P3D.  I loved it.

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11 hours ago, Mike Sierra said:

Aside from the loading time issue -

Holy-moley! Allan, you seem to have placed EVERY single object taller than 7ft into this scenery!

I just entered Orlando overflying Disney World, where even the zillion visitors are depicted (as ground texture, for god's sake, not people-flow... ;) ).

After a first flight (without any recognizable loss of FPSs!) my summary is: It is a mind-boggingly awesome scenery!

Thanks a lot for THAT work!

Michael.

I find mine not that detailed.  As shown here.  Does your's look the same?

uDdom8v.jpg

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2 hours ago, Jack Sawyer said:

The entire sim, as I add new areas it has slowed down P3D's loading considerably

I've had this Problem too after installing Acronis TrueImage 2019. A new module is built in here, called active protection (if I remember right, or similar). Having this module active the sim stops at 6% for at least five minutes before going on. I guess the module does the same procedere which was meant by Alan some posts before: looking and checking every bgl-file. After deactivating this module everything starts as smooth as before. If you should use TI 2019 give it a try.

 

Kai

Edited by KaiUweWeiss
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9 minutes ago, KaiUweWeiss said:

I've had this Problem too after installing Acronis TrueImage 2019. A new module is built in here, called active protection (if I remember right, or similar). Having this module active the sim stops at 6% for at least five minutes before going on. I guess the module does the same procedere which was meant by Alan some posts before: looking and checking every bgl-file. After deactivating this module everything starts as smooth as before. If you should use TI 2019 give it a try.

 

Kai

Thanks Kai!! I do use this, how exactly do I do this?

Many thanks!!!!

PM if you need to.

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2 hours ago, Jack Sawyer said:

The entire sim, as I add new areas it has slowed down P3D's loading considerably.  I can time it next time I boot the sim but honestly I think it's over 20 minutes.  I can literally go downstairs and boil water for tea, brew a cup and come back and it's still loading.  I think Orlando is what broke the camel's back.  I may have to very reluctantly go back to using SCE (Scenery Config Editor) it's free and worked great under 32 but P3D.  I loved it.

Have you tried SimStarter https://secure.simmarket.com/aerosoft-simstarter-ng-fsx-p3d.phtml

If I can use it , anybody can . I know I don't have the amount of AC installed that you do Jack , but I can launch my sim be flying in less than two minutes .

 

John

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1 minute ago, BradB said:

Have you tried SimStarter https://secure.simmarket.com/aerosoft-simstarter-ng-fsx-p3d.phtml

If I can use it , anybody can . I know I don't have the amount of AC installed that you do Jack , but I can launch my sim be flying in less than two minutes .

 

John

Yes, I even bought it a long time ago but never installed it as I didn't like the way it worked, I found SCE to be much easier.

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21 minutes ago, Jack Sawyer said:

Thanks Kai!! I do use this, how exactly do I do this?

Many thanks!!!!

PM if you need to

Hi Jack,

I am at work at the moment. Tomorrow, when I'm sitting in front of my PC I can tell you how to do (it's night here, I am at nightshift). But it's not difficult: in the TI2019 GUI there are some modules at the left side. When I remember correctely it was the second module above the bottom. In german it is called: proaktiver Schutz, so in english it must be something like proactive guard or similar. If you click on it it opens and nearly at the top in the middle there is a trigger to have this module active or not. Just switch it to off, restart your PC and that's it. But: as I remember right you can do it too via the windows services. There has to be a service, called acronis proactive guard (or so). Dectivating it will do the same.

But of course you can PM me too.

 

Kai

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5 minutes ago, KaiUweWeiss said:

Hi Jack,

I am at work at the moment. Tomorrow, when I'm sitting in front of my PC I can tell you how to do (it's night here, I am at nightshift). But it's not difficult: in the TI2019 GUI there are some modules at the left side. When I remember correctely it was the second module above the bottom. In german it is called: proaktiver Schutz, so in english it must be something like proactive guard or similar. If you click on it it opens and nearly at the top in the middle there is a trigger to have this module active or not. Just switch it to off, restart your PC and that's it. But: as I remember right you can do it too via the windows services. There has to be a service, called acronis proactive guard (or so). Dectivating it will do the same.

But of course you can PM me too.

 

Kai

Thanks Kai.  Sending PM

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5 hours ago, Jack Sawyer said:

I find mine not that detailed.  As shown here.  Does your's look the same?

uDdom8v.jpg

 

 

A lot of it is going to be your Settings, Jack Experiment with sliders from default and work you way up.  I got this with 2xSSAA @ 16 anisotropic and Vsync on, Triple Buffering:

 

2019-1-15-16-34-41-121.jpg

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2 hours ago, Ken Terry said:

Ok got it going after 9 1/2 minutes stuck at 6% Loading Terrain.

Had to unload City scenreries, Barcelona, Canberra, Gold Coast and Portland.

Good scenery, but I won't be visiting often.

Cheers

Ken

 

I,too, Ken have finally given up. I gave it one last shot. Created a new SSD partition. Fresh install of Windows 7 Pro. Fresh install of P3Dv4.4. Fresh install of all ORBX sceneries . Fired it up and loaded KORL with Libs disabled. The result?.....34 minutes and 05 seconds. The installer was generally slow and it hung at the 37% mark for over 23 minutes. So, I tried it again. The results were essentially the same. I'm a little concerned about about ORBX pushing the envelop beyond the capabilities of the sim. I understand the desire to go to the limit but when it means we have to disable the normal functions, i.e., ORBX Libs they have gone too far for me. One thing for sure, I own all the ORBX products but I'll never buy one again unless I'm assured that I don't have to turn other stuff to get it to work.............Doug 

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Yep. Did all that. I've done it exactly as the documentation says (plus a whole lot more). Something else is seriously wrong. That's why I decided to go the new partition and fresh OS install. Just to be sure that it wasn't some sort of weird system issue. I have no idea what's going on. I've never seen any add-on behave like this (and between FSX and P3D I have over 700GB of them). Anyway, as I said, I've given up. In the last two days I've spent over 20 hours on this problem and I just can't do it any longer. I've uninstalled CityScene Orlando (no use wasting disc space) and maybe I'll revisit again if some new development occurs..........Doug

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20 minutes ago, W2DR said:

 

I,too, Ken have finally given up. I gave it one last shot. Created a new SSD partition. Fresh install of Windows 7 Pro. Fresh install of P3Dv4.4. Fresh install of all ORBX sceneries . Fired it up and loaded KORL with Libs disabled. The result?.....34 minutes and 05 seconds. The installer was generally slow and it hung at the 37% mark for over 23 minutes. So, I tried it again. The results were essentially the same. I'm a little concerned about about ORBX pushing the envelop beyond the capabilities of the sim. I understand the desire to go to the limit but when it means we have to disable the normal functions, i.e., ORBX Libs they have gone too far for me. One thing for sure, I own all the ORBX products but I'll never buy one again unless I'm assured that I don't have to turn other stuff to get it to work.............Doug 

 

 

Doug

 

Is your anti virus scanning your sim or is it excluded from being scanned?  I have also never heard of this "hung at the 37% mark", nor do I have any of these long load times, and I have the full catalog installed with everything fully activated..

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8 hours ago, Doug Sawatzky said:

 

 

Doug

 

Is your anti virus scanning your sim or is it excluded from being scanned?  I have also never heard of this "hung at the 37% mark", nor do I have any of these long load times, and I have the full catalog installed with everything fully activated..

 

Yep. The sim was excluded on the "old" partition AV and there is no AV installed at all on the "new" partition.

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Just came in with the 744/PMDG from KATL to KMCO/Taxi2Gate. Wonderful! I didn't want to deactivate the ORBX-libs because of coming from openLC NA. There were no problems and the frames were acceptable (I drive settings like 4XSSAA, shadows on, TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10, water high and sliders one notch from max. to left). 

Maybe during incoming there is more time for the sim to load everything "on the fly" instead of doing everything at 6%?

 

Kai

Unbenannt-1.jpg

Edited by KaiUweWeiss
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I finally just now had a chance to test things.

 

1. In the P3D Scenery Library, everything is ticked except what Orbx recommends, Orlando and KORL.

2. Everything is ticked in Orbx’s Orlando Control Panel

 

Started P3D and timed it.

 

P3D 4.4 - No weather loaded - ChasePlane in use - Chose MilViz’s MD-530 - Summer - Day

 

P3D’s load time, stuck at 6% for 7 minutes and 30 seconds.  Fully loaded and ready for flight 9:14 minutes.

 

Departed default KMCO and flew to Disney and then landed at KORL.

 

Frames 25-30 FPS.

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On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 9:49 PM, Jack Sawyer said:

I find mine not that detailed.  As shown here.  Does your's look the same?

uDdom8v.jpg

 

 

Not exactly, of course...:

Disneyland centre:

xnISTVH.jpg

 

Disneyland entrance (look at the mass of people!)

XnKPH7K.jpg

 

Disneyland car park:

xeDz8xJ.jpg

 

And elsewhere autogen buildings seem to perfectly fit the ground texture:

CKPFsUC.jpg

 

5qgUHEB.jpg

 

Michael.

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How about turning Florida into a True Earth product incorporating the Orlando City scenery. Job done. :lol: :D. He says hopefully. Sorry bit late here as read people were having trouble loading said Scenery. Derek.

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Living in Daytona Beach I was excited to hear about this Cityscape and still am! I own every other piece of OrbX scenery and every airport but to afford them I only buy in sales so I will have to wait a while for this one. I have no worries about loading it as I tightly integrate Scenery Config Editor with my OrbX install, before every flight just turning ON all the scenery I need. I CAN load it all at once but it takes 5 mins to load an why bloat up my sim in this way when there is no way to visit them all in one session!?

Have enclosed a link to a few screen shots that should give you an idea how this setup works. World is split into geographic regions, as well as type (LC,mesh.airports).

To add a region to fly I simply click the folders that contain mesh, LC and airports. The generic OrbX libraries are ALWAYS included in the BASE folder as well as Vector, as I run those every flight. I experience smooth flying with frames from 15-90fps depending on airport. Only HEAVY airports will get low fps like YBBN and ESSA. FSX graphic settings on very high except Autogen one from highest setting. I use Steve's DX fixer to set LOD before each flight so I never get OOMS. Flying through regions without a major addon airport just the FTX global or regional ones I can run at LOD 8.5 with the PMDG 737. I drop that by 1 for each major addon airport and I'm generally good to go.

 

Back to this thread, I dont envisage any issues with this scenery but I would be very disappointed if I could not run the cityscape and included airports at the same time. That would defeat the object of taking off , landing and getting the full experience!

 

I believe running the sim, whichever it is, WITHOUT taking scenery management seriously you are asking for trouble IF you want the highest quality experience available. It literally take me ONLY 10-15 seconds to load up Scenery Config Editor and select my flying areas. First I click twice at the top on ALL ADDONS, this turns all scenery on then off, leaving none selected. I now add what I need and I'm done. Some areas like NSTU and AYPY are even quicker as the scenery includes mesh and LC so its a one button click and I'm off to simming nirvana.

 

To the Devs, please keep adding eye candy. We can always turn it off which is better than not being able to turn it on in the first place. My minimum requirements are being able to take off from an airport within a cityscape and fly to another separate region with no issues other than lowering my LOD (yes P3d-ers I hear ya).

If a region can ONLY be flown VFR with all other scenery disabled then it needs to be made known clearly at top of system requirements that "THIS AREA IS SELF CONTAINED ONLY AND IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO BE USED AS A DEPARTURE OR DESTINATION WITH OTHER ADDON SCENERY."

 

PS to devs I am happy to test the region out but due to my strict buying rules (blame American Express)  I cannot purchase unless/until it is on sale.

all list.png

base.png

regions.png

regions2.png

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19 hours ago, Jack Sawyer said:

Mine looks exactly like your’s Michael but for the life of me I can’t find that car parking in shot #3. :banghead:

 

Here's the according map from MyLittleNavMap - the car park should be that south of Disneyland:

Q6umkKA.jpg

Michael.

Edited by Mike Sierra
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8 hours ago, Mike Sierra said:

Here's the according map from MyLittleNavMap - the car park should be that south of Disneyland:

Thanks Michael and brilliant map, I later found it and will post all the shots I took later.  Mine looks exactly like yours and despite a slight loading delay I really like how it looks.

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Hi all,

 

ive been following this thread closely. I have terrible load times as well, but as has been said by someone else, though this irritates it is not my main concern. For me the most difficult issue is the FPS/smoothness and I know that is not right. I have almost all other sceneries and a very powerful computer. Both Gold Coast and Barcelona have worked great and I run them all on an i9, GTX 1080 Ti set up. I just really want to highlight the FPS thing as that does not seem to be most peoples problem but it is very much mine. And, of course, it was one if the big selling points of this scenery that it work relatively smoothly. So, I’m sure something is still loading in a way that it should not.

 

It’s all early days though, I know people are getting frustrated but flight dimming is the sort if hobby where you can spend as much time tinkering as flying. I’ve been doing this nearly 20 years and have spent about 5 of them messing with settings, (exaggering of course), and employing ‘miracle’ cures that generally in the long run make things worse etc, etc. Hang in there, the hobby has never been looking better and ORBX delivers 99% of the time. This’ll be fixed.

Thanks

Neil.

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Just another suggestion about these long load times...

It is recommended to disable KORL and Orlando in the scenery lib which come along out of the box with P3D 4.4. I underline 4.4, because I never have had an entry for Orlando in my lib, only KORL. After 4.4 came out I only upgraded client and content, not scenery or even a full fresh installation. Maybe that's why I don't have to struggle with these long loading times? Like I said before; it lasts for about 2,30 min at 6% only. You can, if available, Orlando deactivate of course but nobody knows the structure under the hood. Maybe any other component is looking for Orlando and that's why it lasts such a long time until loading is going on? My thoughts only.

 

kai

Edited by KaiUweWeiss
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Hi folks

I don’t think this is an ORBX issue. Controversial? Let me explain.
 

As an FSX veteran and now in P3D this 6% delay has been around forever. Because of this I became a scenery config editor fan and it helped.
When I spent a fortune on new gear including an m.2 SSD I expected the problem to go away.....It hasn’t. It’s better but it hasn’t gone away.

I’ve been back using scenery config editor for a while now. I’ve broken up my loads by continent because I don’t really do the tube liners.
 

So what’s my point.
Alan says working with LM is his #1 priority.

I absolutely agree. LM must fix this. I don’t think it’s as easy as you say Alan but let’s hope. We blame the older architecture but they need to know this issue has now become a show stopper. If they intend to maintain their customer base going into the future they must divert developers time into this issue.
ORBX needs to keep pushing the envelope (with high quality of course). That’s why we are customers here. It’s fantastic and needs to continue.
Alan, let us know how we can support you. 

I have started this thread on the LM forum to bring the matter to their attention from a customers perspective https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6307&t=132395

I can’t wait to see what ORBX has coming (Aus V2:D) and I want to continue to enjoy it without the grief.
Cheers

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As Michael says in that thread, the problem is not with the 6% loading delay as it has always been there. Rather, in MNSHO, it's the length of that delay, and others, caused by the Orlando CityScene product that's the problem. It's clear to me that this release has crossed the line between the seemingly insatiable desire for eye-candy and the ability of the sim to reasonably process increasingly larger amounts of data.

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10 minutes ago, W2DR said:

As Michael says in that thread, the problem is not with the 6% loading delay as it has always been there. Rather, in MNSHO, it's the length of that delay, and others, caused by the Orlando CityScene product that's the problem. It's clear to me that this release has crossed the line between the seemingly insatiable desire for eye-candy and the ability of the sim to reasonably process increasingly larger amounts of data.

 

Like I have said in many posts, mine loads in 6 mins 30 with all scenery layers enabled, including libraries, and if I disable all but essential scenery layers in Scenery Config Editor, a process tha takes about 30 seconds, I load in 2 mins 50 or less.

 

So no, it's not clear that this release has crossed that line, rather, if people have mid to high range systems that can't load the scenery in the same time as me, then there is likely to be something else at play, that needs to be investigated.

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John, there is no way I can tell you how tired I am of people telling me it's a mid-low-end system problem. It's clearly something else......Intel 4790K @ 4.7Ghz, MSI Z97 Gaming 7 motherboard, Noctua NH-U12S cooler, Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB RAM, Windows 7 Pro. I too can load things in 6 Min. 30 Sec. with all scenery layers enabled....until I activate Orlando CityScene.

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