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answered HD Trees possibly not being called up?


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I seem to be seeing a change in my trees.  Not sure when it happened but I am pretty sure they used to look a bit more realistic that what I am seeing right now.  I am also getting a certain amount of 'flickering' within a forest for example.  I would really appreciate it if someone could take a look and advise me whether I am suffering from tree paranoia or there is indeed something playing up.

To try and rectify I have

1.  Reinstalled HD Trees

2. Checked that the files in the relevant scenery folder are the ones I have just now installed

3. Checked that dynamic vegetation autogen is off. (Using P3Dv4.3)

4. Tried different locations

 

Below is a video (ORBX EGHI Southampton area) showing what I am seeing and also there are some still shots.

Many thanks in advance for taking a look at this!

KS9g3DQ.jpg

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1XozCXp.jpg

bBQ6ggG.jpg

blHc57i.jpg

7iAQ8fA.jpg

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I see this also. The trees have changed and are now looking more Cartoonish than realistic. The scenery is starting to look more generic to suit the  other sims Orbx releases for also. The trees are made with an configuration  for side viewing, not for top down.  They used to  have more loose foliage and appeared much more realistic. Not anymore. I am sure this is to save frame rates and less use of the system for scenery and for use of the same trees in the library for all the sims. If your flying at high elevations then it may be OK, but the low and slow it looks terrible. It has been this way for some time now.

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5 minutes ago, waynelp said:

I see this also. The trees have changed and are now looking more Cartoonish than realistic. The scenery is starting to look more generic to suit the  other sims Orbx releases for also. The trees are made with an configuration  for side viewing, not for top down.  They used to  have more loose foliage and appeared much more realistic. Not anymore. I am sure this is to save frame rates and less use of the system for scenery and for use of the same trees in the library for all the sims. If your flying at high elevations then it may be OK, but the low and slow it looks terrible. It has been this way for some time now.

Interesting Wayne. I noticed this recently and I can't remember why I didn't notice this before, but they certainly look different to how I remember them.

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4 hours ago, waynelp said:

I see this also. The trees have changed and are now looking more Cartoonish than realistic. The scenery is starting to look more generic to suit the  other sims Orbx releases for also. The trees are made with an configuration  for side viewing, not for top down.  They used to  have more loose foliage and appeared much more realistic. Not anymore. I am sure this is to save frame rates and less use of the system for scenery and for use of the same trees in the library for all the sims. If your flying at high elevations then it may be OK, but the low and slow it looks terrible. It has been this way for some time now.

 

Hello.

 

An interesting theory indeed.

 

1. HD trees is a set of replacement textures and has not been changed since its release.

2. Autogen trees are part of the simulator and by definition, any changes to their structure

or the way in which they display will have been by Lockheed Martin.

 

You might like to read this topic which is based on fact.

 

 

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So can I just confirm from your response Nick that this is something new that a lot of Orbx customers are seeing but that it relates to something that has changed within P3Dv4?

I also don’t remember the ORBX HD trees being so cruciform when viewed from above but I may be looking to hard for differences?

 

Edited by Dreamsofwings1
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Hello,

please have a read of the topic that I linked.

 

I read it and from that took it that the way in which the trees are displayed has been changed.

If I understood it correctly and that is the case, the change is not the result of any action taken

by Orbx because Orbx have made no changes.

You may draw a different conclusion from reading the same words.

 

This is of course much less interesting than the theory that Orbx is looking for a library common

to Aerofly, X Plane and P3D but much more likely to be a fact.

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Hi Guys,

 

Based on the screenshots above, I'm not sure if what you are seeing is the 'frosted' look to some trees or not. One would need to zoom way in on distant trees with a stationary camera to check.

 

However, regarding the link that Nick posted, I've experimented a bit more. You can see the same phenomena in P3D v3 but it's not as noticeable. In v4 where it's more prominent (on my machine) it's highly dependent on the graphic settings you use. If I use the same test case I used in the linked post and set all of the graphic settings in the sim to the lowest possible setting and with a stationary camera,  at the border between opaque and transparent I see a string of light bluish screenvpixels, like a string of pearls.  By moving the camera you can quickly see why one needs the more advanced graphic settings. As you increase the settings you can see what happens to the string of pixels; it gets blurred and more prominent in one way or another but it allows the camera to move without shimmering or other unwanted side effects.

 

I don't know if the LM guys would able to address this or not.

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Thanks for your response Larry.  I wouldn't describe what I am seeing as a frosted look.  In a nutshell, and the reason for my post, it seems that my HD trees are gone and my trees are more what I would have thought are like the default style, two very obvious flat sheets stuck together at right angles.  I think the video I posted probably illustrates it better.  Unfortunately I don't have any stills but looking at old videos the trees somehow seem fuller, bushier,  and less 'cruciform'.  I've used HD trees for a few years now, firstly in FSX and now in P3Dv4 and this change seems to have happened in last couple of weeks or so.  Now it could well be something to do with LM and I certainly don't want to waste anybody's time at ORBX with an LM support query, but I thought here was the best place to start.  I have just taken some close ups and I am not sure if I am seeing the same thing as the 'frosted' issue but then maybe my eye isn't as sharp as others!

w5wCCLG.jpg

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J6EgEbl.jpg

FgCudlo.jpg

xBlAoaG.jpg

 

 

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The third from last pic seems to show the issue perfectly. Once again I agree. In fact I have never seen that cross look before, only the past few weeks, as has already been discussed. It can easily be seen by a vertical down look. I wonder if something has happened during the upgrade  to V4.3(?) As for graphics settings, I fail to see how graphics settings would influence the way trees are physically displayed (?)

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10 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said:

Hello,

autogen trees have always had that shape.

I am beginning to wonder if you have been using Dynamic 3D autogen vegetation.

Hi Nick.

No I have always had that off.  Can verify that from some troubleshooting I was doing a while back to do with tree colours and that was one of the things I was checking was off.

Also my trees have never 'moved'

 

 

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Do I understand you to be saying that your autogen trees have never

looked like crosses from the top down or something else?

 

What I am seeing, both in your shots and in my own copy of P3D is the "speckling"

effect, as explained by Larry which is resulting in the "faces" of the trees, which used

to be almost impossible to see from the sides, being highlighted by the unwanted effect.

This one of your images is a perfect illustration.

 

iPqkKcn.jpg

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Just to reiterate what Nick has already stated, autogen trees have always been made up of two planes perpendicular to each other with a texture applied.  Trees HD has only ever adjusted the texture, not the model.

 

There are some types of custom 3D trees used by some developers, but autogen has always been made up of two flat planes, and the resulting cross shape has always been visible when viewed from above.

 

Cheers,

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I guess what I have been trying to explain is that I don't recall them looking quite so unrealistic.  Maybe something else is causing the cruciform construction to stand out more but from memory, in a side on and top down view, this wasn't as obvious as is appearing in my sim as of late.  I can understand from your explanation and the post how this unwanted effect would make the side on view look odd but would it also effect top down?  If you are saying that the top down view has always looked like that then at least I know it isn't my sim and more a case of me perhaps 'over analysing" the trees because the side on view has been effected.

Just out of interest have you noticed a change in your sim?  I understand from what you say that you can see this frosted effect but was there a point recently where you felt your trees looked less realistic?   I do wonder if it is something to do with 4.3 as that was fairly recent. 

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10 minutes ago, Scott Harmes said:

Just to reiterate what Nick has already stated, autogen trees have always been made up of two planes perpendicular to each other with a texture applied.  Trees HD has only ever adjusted the texture, not the model.

 

There are some types of custom 3D trees used by some developers, but autogen has always been made up of two flat planes, and the resulting cross shape has always been visible when viewed from above.

 

Cheers,

Cheers Scott,

I think my reply to Nick and your post have overlapped in the internet ether!

As my reply above I wonder then if, because the side on view has been altered by this change on the LM side perhaps I am over analysing the top down view and noticing something that has always been that way, whereas before because the trees looked great from the side I wasn't really looking for defects.

 

Edited by Dreamsofwings1
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I think you are right.

I will mark the topic as answered.

If you wish, you can try at the P3D forum and see what their support staff have to say.

They will no doubt at some point ask you to "reach out to the developer",

so I attach a screen shot from a completely default P3D v4 for you to

show them.

 

 

Untitled.jpg

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Hi Guys,

I agree that this effect, also present in default P3D v4.3 legacy trees, is more noticeable, and perhaps a bit of a distraction.  I have not seen this topic on the LM forum. It might be helpful to post something on the subject on that forum with images like that Nick shows using default trees.  If you still have v3, a comparison shot would be helpful.  I could then make reference to the topic on the beta forum with the knowledge that it's not just my machine. .

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49 minutes ago, Larry_R said:

Hi Guys,

I agree that this effect, also present in default P3D v4.3 legacy trees, is more noticeable, and perhaps a bit of a distraction.  I have not seen this topic on the LM forum. It might be helpful to post something on the subject on that forum with images like that Nick shows using default trees.  If you still have v3, a comparison shot would be helpful.  I could then make reference to the topic on the beta forum with the knowledge that it's not just my machine. .

Cheers Larry, I went straight from FSX to P3Dv4.3 so that is all I can go on really.  Surprised it hasn't appeared yet on the forum.  I would imagine that there are a vast number of P3Dv4 users out there that also use HD Trees and on my sim it sticks out like a sore thumb.   I have added a post on the other link to see if YoYo had any luck when he contacted them.

I will add a post on the LM forum and use the pictures above and also the default that Nick supplied to illustrate the point and see what the response is.

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15 minutes ago, Nick Cooper said:

I don't think that is the cause, I have never used that setting.

If it looks better and you are happy with it, that's good news.

 

I agree Nick, I have always had these shadows on without issue but certainly improves the situation until LM work their magic. :)

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