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John Dow

TrueEarth Netherlands performance Testing in AFS2

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I am glad i didn't buy prepar3d and all addons again, it's obsolete seeing this.

Yeah some will say there is no ATC and weather, definitely something I can live with. 

Next year i want to buy a new rig with Windows Mixed Reality, hope AFS 2 works fine with it. Any Information on that?

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3 minutes ago, kilby said:

Great video...........what fps were you getting.i cannot read the figures.

 

No idea, because FRAPS was taking some of the resources, but it was smooth, that's all that matters to me.  Pretty sure most of the time the FRAPS counter was showing over 50 fps at 4K res.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, kilby said:

Great video...........what fps were you getting.i cannot read the figures.

A general comment from John Venema regarding Netherlands True Earth performance: - "We have worked closely with IPACS to really optimise this release and the FPS even in Amsterdam and other large cities is off the charts! In some areas beta testers have reported over 270FPS!!"

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Having fun John? :) Flying that fast with good FPS AND """KILLER FRAP""" RUNNING can only happen in AF2, even with the best available rig.

I was flying (and having fun) tin their new Florida DLC yesterday and it's a blast

 

Can't wait to get Netherlands

 

Ben

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7 hours ago, tonywob said:

Imagine that in VR. I hope anyone who tries this has a good stomach :footmouth:

 

I've already tried it. FUN!!!! 

 

Guys, buy a headset!! :)

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14 hours ago, zazaboeing said:

And I loved the clouds also!

 

Don't say that or IPACS may not start working on those...! :rolleyes:B) The clouds themselves may look okayish (like when you fly through them) but the small circle they form around your plane, wherever you go, as if they are glued to your wings, absolutely sucks. And also that they are just hanging there all the time... no changes, no variation, no nothing. If AFS2 needs one thing, it's a weather engine!!! But well, it's not very important right now because the weather has been tropical for months in the Netherlands so flying without any clouds over those summer only textures is perfectly realistic! When this addon has been released I can relive this Dutch summer for decades to come! ;)

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6 hours ago, J van E said:

 ...but the small circle they form around your plane, wherever you go, as if they are glued to your wings, absolutely sucks. And also that they are just hanging there all the time... no changes, no variation, no nothing....

 

This is unfortunately one of the reasons for AFS2's excellent performance.

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1 hour ago, wolfko said:

 

This is unfortunately one of the reasons for AFS2's excellent performance.

 

If you are trying to say that the performance of AFS2 is that good because it has, amongst others, no weather engine: I don’t think so. I am sure that in a few years time IPACS will be able to add a weather engine without the sim dropping down to P3D levels of performance. People have been saying for ‘years’ that AFS2 performs so well because of the lack of options but if you look at what has been added over time and specially if you look how TrueEarth does NOT kill performance in AFS2, like it does in P3D, I think it’s time to not say that anymore.

 

In order to enjoy TrueEarth in P3D with ALL detail I had to disable almost all settings apart from the autogen/buildings settings and I had to fly the default Maule... only then I could maintain an FPS of 24... In AFS2 I will be able to use all settings at ultra/insane and still performance won’t even come CLOSE to my max of 60 (vsync). Without vsync FPS will probably be >100 easily. Which leaves an enormous headroom for amongst others a weather engine. And ATC. And a lot of aircraft systems (which don’t seem to have any impact on performance at all, so the latest update shows).

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9 hours ago, J van E said:

Without vsync FPS will probably be >100 easily.


*Ahem* My personal best (FPS in lower left corner)

iskY1U.jpg

 

It's going to depend on your computer, of course, and particularly your graphics card. The visuals of Aerofly are almost entirely on the card, as you know. From my perspective it should be very interesting to see what we get when the 1180's (or whatever) show up!!

 

Meanwhile, I agree with J van E that the performance meme should probably go away until proof to support it shows up. Its spoken of as fact too often, given the available evidence. Let's all wait and see, ok?

 

In the meanwhile, I myself believe the sim has a lot of "strategic FPS depth" to give away and fall back on as it adds more and more details. Am I right? Time will tell!!

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Draw distances on scenery look much better than Xplane frankly. (transparent buildings and grey bricks on horizon)

It will be interesting to find out the performance of True Earth England for Xplane and how much Vulkan improves performance when implemented.

I like to fly low and just have fun in VR to appreciate the eye candy and excitement as well proper simming so performance is everything and currently Xplane doesn't cut it in that regard even though they have a great implementation of VR.

If Vulkan isn't the silver bullet I may have to switch sims.

 

Can the Op say whether performance was improved with OrbX scenery or lower than stock?

Any heads up on Xplane performance in beta?

Edited by david broome

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On 8/7/2018 at 10:22 PM, J van E said:

People have been saying for ‘years’ that AFS2 performs so well because of the lack of options but if you look at what has been added over time and specially if you look how TrueEarth does NOT kill performance in AFS2, like it does in P3D, I think it’s time to not say that anymore.

Good point.

IPACS has previously explained, quote:

- "Firstly, the frame rate and the complexity of an aircraft aren't directly linked in Aerofly: there is the physics core (CPU) which will see increased load but there is still a lot of headroom for it, and there is the graphics engine which runs on the GPU. If we increase complexity that doesn't affect the frame rate primarily, cause the complexity is run on the CPU and not the graphics card. And to get around the performance hit on the CPU we have built a very good foundation for the physics core. I've already implemented a lot of aircraft systems in the last two years and I didn't experience any performance issues. Dont underestimate the aerofly engine, or rather your CPU power, when used efficiently."

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27 minutes ago, alcliff said:

"Firstly, the frame rate and the complexity of an aircraft aren't directly linked in Aerofly: there is the physics core (CPU) which will see increased load but there is still a lot of headroom for it, and there is the graphics engine which runs on the GPU. If we increase complexity that doesn't affect the frame rate primarily, cause the complexity is run on the CPU and not the graphics card.

 

A point I've made before, but I think many are so accustomed to how other sims (that run mostly on the cpu) respond to additional complexity, that they make what I believe is the mistake of assuming Aerofly will behave/react exactly the same.

 

Meanwhile if you take an actual look at the sim in action in something like the Netherlands, you find that the CPU is essentially on vacation while the GPU does the heavy lifting, leaving the CPU (which in the past had to do almost everything) dreaming wistfully of AI, ATC, even deeper systems and other juicy goodies coming to pay a visit eventually.

 

301FPS

Ho4kqs.png

 

 

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I've discussed the AFS2 architecture with the IPACS team at length and there is a huge amount of spare CPU cycles to implement all the extra systems P3D and XP11 have and there would still be headroom to spare without impacting FPS since most of these will be CPU-driven apart from shader code. The key to all this is how the engine has been built from the start.

 

We view AFS2 as very much a 'foundation sim' which is a work in progress with a lot of potential over the coming years. Therefore all the work and R&D we are doing with ports and new scenery products are not contributing to our bottom line but it's an investment in the future.

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Exactly my thoughts, at the moment AFS 2 may seem a bit arcade-ish, more like a flying game than a serious simulator, with it's lack of weather variation, ATC and AI Traffic or complex aircraft systems, although the flight model and physics is quite good already. But I believe that it is the one simulator with the highest potential for the future because it's build upon a solid, modern engine with great coding and it really makes use of modern hardware. FSX/Prepar3d and Xplane have a long history and had to make many compromises in order to implement all the new features over the years, mainly a heavy performance impact. When I throw everything I have at Prepar3d, like real weather, AI Traffic, shadows, dynamic lighting and complex aircraft, even modern hardware has trouble keeping up a good, stutter free framerate. For AFS 2, I'm really hoping that all those features will get implemented over the next few years with the same level of quality regarding performance and coding that the simulator has been built on from the start. And I hope that in a few years we can do almost everything we can in Xplane or Prepar3d in Aerofly FS 2, but with much better performance. I just wish that more 3rd party developers would take a closer look at that platform ,up until now I think it's only ORBX and to a lesser extent Aerosoft that are seriously developing for AFS 2

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18 hours ago, John Venema said:

We view AFS2 as very much a 'foundation sim' which is a work in progress with a lot of potential over the coming years. Therefore all the work and R&D we are doing with ports and new scenery products are not contributing to our bottom line but it's an investment in the future.

I now like Aerofly FS2 better and better - despite its shortcomings. Already now I see that I use it more than FSX and P3Dv4. That Orbx obviously bets on this simulator will give it a boost. Very exciting. I will probably buy all products Orbx will produce for Aerofly FS2. For me, for example, Aerofly FS2 airports from Orbx - for obvious reasons - are more relevant now, than for FSX / P3Dv4.
And now it is highly desirable that other third-party developers throw their eyes on Aerofly FS2.

 

Do you (JV) have any thoughts about why not experienced manufacturers like Carenado, Alabeo, Just Flight, etc., convert their products to Aerofly FS2? Is the customer base - preliminary - too small?

Edited by alcliff

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14 minutes ago, John Venema said:

Yes the customer base is too small and they aren’t willing to invest R&D for no profit. Things may change once the sim matures though.

Ok. Thanks for reply. Thanks also to Orbx for their important contributions. Then I hope IPACS has the resources needed for further development. 

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For years we have all struggle with MS FS performance, all version. It was no different for FSX. I also struggle with P3D V4 setting, tweaking, loading adjusting.. reading how to.
I have invested a ton of money in those 2 sim platform and honestly for now.... I have no fun with P3D... Blame it on my rig maybe... But I also had it to change rig for Flight siming.

 

I hate to install and tweak stuff, maybe some folks have all the time in the world to do so but not me.

 

So for now it's AF2 only. And yes I will buy anything that come out for this sim.

Ben

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20 minutes ago, Benny said:

For years we have all struggle with MS FS performance, all version. It was no different for FSX. I also struggle with P3D V4 setting, tweaking, loading adjusting.. reading how to.
I have invested a ton of money in those 2 sim platform and honestly for now.... I have no fun with P3D... Blame it on my rig maybe... But I also had it to change rig for Flight siming.

 

I hate to install and tweak stuff, maybe some folks have all the time in the world to do so but not me.

 

So for now it's AF2 only. And yes I will buy anything that come out for this sim.

Ben

I have to agree, i have uninstalled P3D.

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I reinstalled my entire PC at the beginning of April. I wanted to wait with installing P3D until 4.3 had been released so fo the moment being I only installed AFS2. However, it's 4 months later now and I still didn't install P3D... Can't bring myself to install not only the program itself but also all addons I need to make it worthwhile... and all that for a stuttery 25 fps... So for me it's AFS2 only for now. I almost installed P3D a week or so ago because I missed a bit of depth and longed for the Majestic Q400. But after creating the cold and dark mod for the AFS2 Q400 I don't really need to do that anymore. I've got enough buttons and knobs and switch to use for now. And with TrueEarth Netherlands I will have enough ground to fly over for a long time. (Right now I only fly over South Florida because I can't stand empty photoreal anymore: TE Netherlands will be even better and bigger!)

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Thank you JV for your foresight, and your support of those of us who use and enjoy AFS2. Although there may be no financial benefit now, may you see your profits soaring in the future when more people come to this platform.

 

- Kenneth J Kerr 

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I have all three sims (P3D, XP11 and AFS2) installed and I use them all for their particular strengths. I certainly hope that fans of AFS2 don’t remove the other sims from their PCs and only buy for AFS2, since if everyone did that we’d go out of business fairly quickly.

 

You must keep in mind that your continued support of P3D as our core platform makes it possible for us to spend R&D on XP and AFS2. If everyone abandoned P3D then that would pretty much stop development for AFS2 stone cold dead.

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been on P3D for quite a while now, all this "stuttering" talk  mean you have your settings not optimized IMHO to you hardware.  The Setting DO matter.B)

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44 minutes ago, FireRx said:

been on P3D for quite a while now, all this "stuttering" talk  mean you have your settings not optimized IMHO to you hardware.  The Setting DO matter.B)

 

They do matter but the thing is they don't matter with Aerofly FS 2. ;) AFS2 simply runs extremely well out of the box. No optimizing needed. But still, I don't think anyone has to be afraid that everyone will abandon P3D and stop buying addons for it because there is a LOT more to a flightsim than just performance. ;) Currently AFS2 meets my personal requirements but that may change at any time: the list of things that AFS2 is lacking is seriously huge! It will take quite a few years before AFS2 might (perhaps, possibly) completely replace P3D. (If it ever happens.) Imho things are looking good, better than ever, for every available civil flightsim.

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4 hours ago, John Venema said:

I have all three sims (P3D, XP11 and AFS2) installed and I use them all for their particular strengths. I certainly hope that fans of AFS2 don’t remove the other sims from their PCs and only buy for AFS2, since if everyone did that we’d go out of business fairly quickly.

 

You must keep in mind that your continued support of P3D as our core platform makes it possible for us to spend R&D on XP and AFS2. If everyone abandoned P3D then that would pretty much stop development for AFS2 stone cold dead.

Quite agree, John. I'm finding myself a lot less enthused about P3D nowadays, and am spending much more time in XP11 and an occasional flight in AFS2. But P3D, particularly in the ORBX actual regions, is still pretty impressive. I for one will continue to take pretty much everything ORBX puts out for P3D even though I suspect that once I get a copy of TrueEarth UK for XP that'll be where I go play for a seriously long time.

 

And a big thank you for supporting all these newer sims.

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On 8/12/2018 at 11:09 AM, andy1252 said:

Quite agree, John. I'm finding myself a lot less enthused about P3D nowadays, and am spending much more time in XP11 and an occasional flight in AFS2. But P3D, particularly in the ORBX actual regions, is still pretty impressive. I for one will continue to take pretty much everything ORBX puts out for P3D even though I suspect that once I get a copy of TrueEarth UK for XP that'll be where I go play for a seriously long time.

 

And a big thank you for supporting all these newer sims.

I have also been using XP11 quite a bit more lately, especially in Virtual Reality which is an amazing experience. I will likely purchase one or two more ORBX items for P3D during the current sale, but am very much looking forward to TrueEarth England for XP11.

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