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Well JV, I am on the fence with this photoreal tech. One of the very best things I have always loved about Orbx scenery is the different seasons and weather looks. I don't want to lose those with Orbx products. I LOVE flying in other seasons besides summer. So for me, that is a HUGE factor on whether or not I will purchase a scenery product. I feel I might be in the minority on this as there seems to be no end to the amount of head over heels love for photoreal tech. Now, if I am misunderstanding the tech, and seasons ARE possible, then when/if a photoreal season is out with all the seasons, than I would be interested. Which brings up a side question...is the upcoming photoreal Netherlands package only going to depict one season, or all seasons represented?

 

Thanks for pinging us customers on this topic JV.

Edited by Sniper31
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I am a low and slow GA guy. Thus for me the quality of the scenery when close to ground level is what matters most. Yes, most of my transit time is above 2,000 ft AGL and photoreal may be good at that altitude, most importantly for portraying the best lifelike replication of the area, but frankly I would need to prove this to myself as I have limited knowledge and experience. Blurry textures just won't do it for me.

 

I guess for me the magic solution would be the ability to seamlessly transition between these two "worlds" in ORBX scenery of the future.I have everyone of the ORBX offerings at the moment. The 2018 roadmap, indicating photoreal upcoming for NA made me stop and consider the future. I had already determined that I would purchase one of these regions when they come to do a comparison. For me it is a wait and see. 

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Hello John

 

that sounds interesting, so I should consider installing an extra SSD for Germany in the PC :-)

 

So we have a very nice Germany with GEN & GES. If that "GEPO" is not too expensive - why not. I'd rather have a new FTX NA region ...

 

Happy New Year to you and all ORBX employees and of course to all ORBX users!

 

Best regards 

Ted :-)

 

 
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I'm with Sniper.  I've been using photoscenery for years (even before it was "popular").  The technology exists to make it ALL seasonal, and today any photscenery product that is only "summer" is not a scenery I would purchase anymore.  So my question is....

 

How LONG after an ORBX photoreal scenery that is only "summer" is released will we have to wait to get the REST of the seasons for the same scenery area?  I'm not buying it until it contains ALL the seasons.  And yes, I understand how LARGE the scenery files would be then, and the associated storage capacity requirements.  I can afford to have the necessary hard drive storage for today's scenery technology.  Many ORBX customers may not be able to (or want to) have that storage capability.  So be it.  But don't "water down" your products because somebody is still running a 5-year old computer and won't (or can't) upgrade it.

 

As an aside (and maybe more related to your "2018 Roadmap" thread), ORBX and photoreal scenery for AF2 is going to be exceptional.  But please, can you use your "influence" to get the AF2 developers to make a darned HELICOPTER for AF2.  I won't be buying any of the ORBX CityScapes for any flightsims UNLESS there is a working helicopter for the simulator.  Why have a whole city that you can only "explore" in a fixed wing aircraft?   

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Every reply written above leaves a lot of interesting points that need to be answered before I make a decision.  I thank all those above who bought them to the fore.

Regards,

JimNZ

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I have always felt the beauty of ORBX regions/airports, etc was its mixture of LC with a spattering of photo-real where it really makes a difference.  You get the benefits of the uniqueness of the photo-real with the relatively small footprint of the LC base.  120GB for one season with a possible 600 GB for a 5 season mixture in comparison to the 15 GB for the LC based system that currently exists is a huge difference, especially when you consider that the potential footprint of this one item for 5 seasons would exceed the total footprint of the entire ORBX catalog at this time.  I can see doing this for AF2 as it is what their system is based on, but for P3D/FSX I really think you have hit the sweet spot with what you have been doing....keep up the good work :-)  

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JV, thanks, I probably would not buy for two reasons.... 1  No seasons and 2 file size.

With all that is coming in 2018 SSD space will need to be saved.

Also planning a switch to P3D V4 soon and will keep my FSX as well.

HNY

Ken

 

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JV, you've given us enough to weigh in on with size (120GB), seasons (summer to start with) and potential. Having seen what you're doing with annotated PR in the Netherlands, I'm very happy to commit to the concept while awaiting further details. I'm in the camp with the comments above that value resolution too. For me, landclass, even when hand annotated and refined as shown here with what you're planning for GEN 1.2, is fine at 4-5,000' + AGL, but to see the discontinuities down low at 1,000 leaves me somewhat dissatisfied.

Edited by Gulfstreamtwo

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Not to be a  wiseguy, but it depends on how real the proposed package would be. Some "photo-real" scenery looks a lot less less real than the current "artificial" ORBX offerings. It might be a step backwards in terms of the seasonal richness of the current Germany scenery offered by ORBX. Just a thought.

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As above, I would love to have the seasons, as for storage, well you can get large hard drives cheap enough these days so don’t think storage will be a problem. Derek.

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Sounds great, though there are other regions that would be more interesting photoreal wise. I'm guessing however these regions - namely Norway, Canada - are ones that fall under "too expensive imagery" unfortunately. I'm hoping there will be effort made to come up with a solution especially for AFS2 with those areas whether it be some sort of landclass based scenery or negotiating with imagery providers. As for Germany, it would be a great region for AFS2 as it would fill a space between Switzerland and Netherlands. A photoreal Italy would interest me more as far as western Europe goes. But Germany is still interesting, especially with the many different cities and their POIs.

 

In regards to points above, I'm guessing the single season would only apply to the AFS2 and XP11 editions since those sims don't natively support seasons. Having a single season region in P3D would be a no-go. Seasons is a key reason I'm staying with P3D as my main flight sim and not moving to XP. Also I don't mind the big file size. Technology is still going forward, HDDs and SSDs are getting bigger and cheaper.

 

Also as for Paddler's above concern - when I was using XP11 with high quality photoimagery it looked great below 2000ft. It will depend on the level of quality Orbx use, but judging by the Netherlands previews it looks great.

Edited by Asheroo
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I am all for the idea but will wait until I have viewed the Netherlands before committing to it. As I am a summer flier seasons don't bother me so much as other pilots but if seasons come with the 120gb package maybe I will use them. 

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Good discussion so far guys, thanks for the feedback. We will consider all your points of course. It’s input from our customers that influence our products so we appreciate your thoughts!

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Clear answer: I would buy it for sure. I would even pay a premium for it. Count me in for AeroflyFS2 and Prepar3d4, but not XP.

 

120GB are fine with me, that's the relation we simply have to live with for this kind of scenery. Prices for SSDs are going down and either we want photoscenery or we don't. I want it.

 

Thanks for your effort,

Michael

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I will buy any scenery that comes out for AFS2. Fantastic sim and you do not lose anything when going down low with its technology. You get very high frame rates and quick load times. It Germany was a kickstarter project then you would have my money already. Bring it on! BTW, as Orbx does have its own aircraft for sale perhaps an Orbx chopper or Trike would not be out of the question?

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I have P3D and flyinside, but since all of my flying is with an occulus rift I only fly with Aerofly FS2.  Orbx looks amazing in VR and I will definitely purchase any new scenery for Aerofly. Current Orbx airfields for Aerofly are works of art, I love low flying and VFR navigation. Would love to see Australia given the  Orbx photorealistic scenery treatment for Aerofly. 

 

So that, an 8K headset and a 6 DOF motion simulator and I'm set for retirement.!

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Photoreal products have been available for Germany for quite some time, with POIs and I haven't purchased them.  There of course is a 64 bit simulator now to play with, and that gets rid of one of the reasons I never bought large scale PR coverage, but that only solves one of a few problems for me.  It is probably a good product to have for AF2,  since it would dovetail nicely into the switzerland and innsbruck areas,  There just wouldn't be enough benefit over the existing sceneries to make it worth it to me in p3d.  

 

In my humble opinion, good PR coverage in ORBX regions could and should be expanded to cover more urban areas and mountain ranges. (Imagine Glacier park, the rockies, and some of the other ranges in NA in full photoreal) but a full region coverage, including farmland, forests, and suburbs, would be IMO too much loss in disk space and resources, for the return benefit provided,  particularly if we lose full seasonal coverage (or even if it is expanded to include it,  how much space would that need? half a TB?)  

 

I like the idea of all PR regions if they are smaller, like NL or make sense in other ways,  i.e. in a warmer area without the importance of temperate seasons,  Germany for me, might be too big an area for it.

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Of course yes for AFS2 Germany :) As some says will be great with Orbx Netherlands and the IPACS switzerland. I love photoreal scenery, great for VFR flight. And size not a problem for me, SSD is not necessary for AFS2 i have a 2TB HDD and work very very well ;) (so not expensive actually to have big storage for photoreal scenery).

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I would not buy, as I fly GA mostly in mountain regions.  Too much disk space for the amount of time I would be using the scenery.

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hi JV, here my thoughts about this:

- seasons (at least summer and winter) are crucial for me

- i think, currently the orbx photo real tech is suited mostly for small und scenic countries (switzerland!! ;)). there is more benefit for the eye in the nature (mountains, forests, rocks, swamps, rivers, valleys)  than in urban areas (big cities, farm land). the latter alread, look very realistic with landclass tech. 

 

cheers, mike

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Yeah I would love a photoreal Germany.  I already have one, but it's not so great.  Especially as it is being made for Aerofly FS2, I would definitely buy it for that sim, and I would probably buy it for P3D also.  I have the FTX Germany regions already, and haven't even installed FTX GES yet, but I do already chop and change between photo scenery and FTX regions elsewhere.  TBH single season doesn't worry me at all with photoreal.  That's one reason I do swap between PR and landclass.  If I want to explore the scenery and check out real features in the landscape,and for high altitude flights, I will use PR.  If I want to fly low and slow, or fly with hard winter ground textures I will use landclass with either FTX Global or FTX regions.  At times I will fly from photoreal regions to FTX regions or vice versa and that works well for me.

Edited by scottharmes6

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This year I bought GEN and GES among others. An update for GEN is announced, so there is enough for me to discover.

I do have the European Full Regions nearly complete now  and really want to invest in other European Regions but not in replacing regions I just bought.

Have no experience with AFS2, to be honest I don't know what it is.

Furthermore the size (120 Gb for one season) is getting too big for me.

 

Nevertheless I can understand that German simmers want to have this, as I will buy Orbx's coverage of The Netherlands although I have the freeware NL2000 coverage installed, which is also very good.

 

Happy New Year to all of you.

 

Best regards Fred

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22 minutes ago, _ME2_ said:

- i think, currently the orbx photo real tech is suited mostly for small und scenic countries (switzerland!! ;)). there is more benefit for the eye in the nature (mountains, forests, rocks, swamps, rivers, valleys)  than in urban areas (big cities, farm land). the latter alread, look very realistic with landclass tech. 

I would like to disagree here, not on the mountains aspect but on urban areas. It has been critcized numerous times that vector roads cutting through industrial/residental areas, even trough buildings, and sharp-cut cities are neither pleasing for the eye nor do they correspond to reality. I am a bit surprized to read this obvisouly isn't an issue anymore at once. I am a (nearly) pure GA flyer and I find these landclass features disturbing, although certainly in a different rate form scenery to scenery.

 

Granted, these issues have been improved to a percentage in GEN/GES, of course in the two extended photoreal regions of Berlin and Munich, but you will still meet them leaving these areas.

 

On the other hand, the ORBX rural/agricultural etc. textures are excellent and one might discuss if it's really of any advantage to replace them in, say, some regions of Northeastern Germany. But all cities would certainly benefit from a photoreal treatment, even smaller ones.

 

This would concern anyway Prepar3d/FSX only, as photoreal is a must for AeroflyFS2 and I recall numerous people asking for a photoreal Germany in the AeroflyFS2 forums.

 

Kind regards, Michael

Edited by pmb
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Yes i would also buy for AeroflyFS2.

Also very good questions above.

 

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I have carefully read all the pros and cons.

To keep this short as those before me have amply qualified their decision.  I will buy for Aerofly FS2  and the four seasons but I'd be happy with just winter and summer.

Jim.

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Hi John,

 

just had a look at the Netherlands shots and it looks very well. I've collected quite a lot of Orbx scenery over last years,

and this includes most of the regions, all of the FTX Global products except 3 or 4 airports, and a lot of the other airports. 

And what I like most are the HD Airports. Orbx vector and landclass scenery with nice textures is the best we could get 

so far for large areas and for a reasonable price, but in detail it cannot always be so realistic of course.

Just now I found out that the AU and NZ regions and my 5 airports there look perfect in P3d, so I will go on with this. 

 

But I also have more than 400 GB freeware photoscenery for FSX, partly with watermasks but no autogen. 

And I like to make pr scenery on my own using FSET since years, this is always interesting and works for all the sims.

So I now have Aerofly FS2 as well and it's really a good simulator using an advanced engine which is very well coded.

I also have the new Orbx products for Aerofly and once in the Aerofly forum I wrote, that the LOWI scenery by Jarrad Marshall

for me is the perfection of photoscenery. All his sceneries as far as I can see are based on a big pr.

So I am talking too much about what I have and do because this leads to what I want to say:

 

- A most realistic scenery must be based  on pr and not on vector and landclass scenery.

  But it needs autogen or cultivation as they say at Aerofly, it needs all the buildings and vegetation everywhere,

  and this must all be in place. Can you really do this for large areas?

- For me seasons are not important, I have enough bad weather in Germany outside ;), so I mostly fly in summer.

- I don't care about download- and filesizes cause I don't use ssd to run the sims, only for the OS.

 

And for FSX and P3d...do you want to make watermasks? Autogenerated will not be good enough and handmade 

will never be finished. But with Aerofly FS2 I've learned that it's possible to fly without animated water...

 

So my answer is "yes", I want your PR Germany. I will not buy the Orbx Germany regions because I like my 

Germany in FTX Global, but this will be something advanced.

 

Happy new year and a lot of fun and success in 2018! 

 

Cheers,

Andreas 

 

       

 

 

 

         

  

 

 

 

 

         

 

 

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4 minutes ago, pmb said:

I would like to disagree here, not on the mountains aspect but on urban areas. It has been critcized numerous times that vector roads cutting through industruial/residental areas, even trough buildings, and sharp-cut cities are neither pleasing for the eye nor do they correspond to reality. I am a bit surprized to read this obvisouly isn't an issue anymore at once. I am a (nearly) pure GA flyer and I find these landclass features disturbing, although certainly in a different rate form scenery to scenery.

 

Granted, these issues have been improved to a percentage in GEN/GES, of course in the two extended photoreal regions of Berlin and Munich, but you will still meet them leaving these areas.

 

On the other hand, the ORBX rural/agricultural etc. textures are excellent and one might discuss if it's really of any advantage to replace them in, say, some regions of Northeastern Germany. But all cities would certainly benefit from a photoreal treatment, even smaller ones.

 

This would concern anyway Prepar3d/FSX only, as photoreal is a must for AeroflyFS2 and I recall numerous people asking for a photoreal Germany in the AeroflyFS2 forums.

 

Kind regards, Michael

 

i agree withe the issues you mentioned, Michael. I only have the full fat NA regions, no vector or global and there these things are no as pronounced as in the global part of orbx land. for me these things were nothing to worry about too much as the overall impression of the cities is convincing to me. 

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I am with Brett T. Not a lot I could add to his reasoning. I find that my interest in FS diminishes according to my chances of getting it set up to my liking before the hardware can no longer cope. I am still setting FSX up after a year with a replacement PC. If I just about have it done in time to start all over again I'd rather step off the treadmill!
I suppose I'm wondering if Orbx will continue to provide scenery in its present format as well as photoreal. If customers can choose, everyone should be happy.
 

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I am on the fence about this until I see the Netherlands in action. I have played with photoreal many times in the past but moved away from it.

 

Three reasons -

lack of seasons (essential for me)

Limited autogen (a big issue for me)

Can be blurry when low down (which is how I fly) plus I am not convinced that P3Dv4 handles photgen ground textures that well.

 

The huge plus of course is the accurate ground mapping of streets, roads etc particularly in town/urban areas.

 

I expect that it is 'the future' but not sure if I want it yet.

 

Lastly, file size could be an issues. At 120GB for one region and season, I wonder how big all of Orbx would be with all seasons? I have about 95% of all Orbx scenery currently. 

I run FSX-A on a 1TB SSD and P3Dv4 on a separate 1TB dedicated SSD. Whilst these drives continue to fall in price, I still wonder just how many more/bigger drives I would need to purchase!

 

BTW, my comments are all about P3Dv4 which is now my main simulator of choice. AFS2 might be a different matter, although it is not something that I am thinking of acquiring.

Edited by paulb
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Thanks for asking, John.

 

I'm from Germany and absolutely satisfied with GES+GEN currently.

So no need for me, especially when there are no other seasons.

 

 

What I'd like to see much, much more is a partly photoreal scenery of the Alps (with seasons)!

Complete, not just Switzerland or whatever! 

 

 

Talking again about Germany, the new Aerodata could be used to enhance little parts and cities of GEN+GES

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Insta buy for Aerofly :) I am in. 

My Aerofly FS2 is installed on HDD. FS2 has no real boost from SSD except 3 seconds shorter loading time... 120GB is okay for me. 

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Well the thing is i can boot up o4xp and w2xp and the like and with a little effort create some great looking summer based photo based scenery with cool autogen for xp11. What I really miss however is those full regions with full seasons for fsx.  For me they encapsulate the very best of what orbx offers and that is the feeling of being there and the most immersive experience I've had in flight simming so i'm going no for photo and the entire globe for landclass based scenery ;).  Happy new year!

 

 

Edited by obee1

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