Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I have P3D v3.4 running nicely now, with Orbx providing the bulk of the  scenery, & it has a large collection of add on aircraft.

& along comes V4, & Aerofly FS 2, (AFS2).

Orbx is supporting both sims.

I understand the Orbx support of AFS2 is possibly  related to its VR capability, & perhaps the photoreal scenery & opportunities in that area.

But now it appears P3D v4 has VR capability - as good as AFS2 or not?  I don't know. 

 

As Orbx puts out product, I buy it.

I can't afford to do that & run both P3D & AFS2.

So at some stage I need to make a choice, & that choice hinges to quite a  large extent on what Orbx will be doing in the future.

 

Does Orbx see something in AFS2 that is 'the way to the future"?

Is Orbx going to rerelease & sell  every current Orbx airport for AFS2?

When a new Orbx airport comes out, will there be 1 version for P3D & another for  AFS2. ie, 2 separate purchases.

What are the points of difference between P3D v4 & AFS2 that Orbx feels warrant commercial activity in both Sims going forward?

 

I would be a tad nonplussed if I spent another $1,000 on Orbx P3D product only to find I should have gone with AFS2.:mellow:

 Any guidance appreciated.

TTM

Edited by TigerTigerM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you should read the whole thread:

 

Like any company, if they sell a lot of the upcoming LOWI and Meg's, I think that they will invest in the conversion to AF2.

 

No one really know how deep as a simulator AF2 will become, but visually it's stuning. Ho, I forgot about how smooth this sim run

 

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Venema recently said that FS2 & P3D are different enough that you decide what is most important to you and then focus on that sim. There is a 40% discount for buying an OrbX item if you already own if for another sim. As for me I will stick with P3D v4. After installing PTA last Friday it has taken the sim to another level so lighting has largely caught up with X-Plane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will keep both (P3D4 & AFS2), but i doubt i will buy the same thing for both Sims, in the end this would be just way to expensive to have everything for two systems.

We know ORBX is creating fantastic scenerys for AFS2, but what is with airplane designers? I love the Planes from A2A Simulations but only availible for P3D,

that leads to AFS2 will be for quick VR fun flights, but the more In depth sim is still Prepar3D, thats just my opinion.

 

Edited by Nedo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Nedo said:

I will keep both (P3D4 & AFS2), but i doubt i will buy the same thing for both Sims,but the more In depth sim is still Prepar3D, thats just my opinion.

It will be very interesting to see how things develop now with 4 64bit flight sims

Now that I have PTA for P3D v4 I am much more satisfied with the lighting & will not bother trying X Plane now

I believe Dovetail are being very brave in creating Flight Sim World & have taken a hit from feedback as they have with Train Sim World which I do have

OrbX have a great opportunity to influence all of these sims by being the masters of quality that they are and developers of sims are likely to listen to them

OrbX can then really push the design envelope for scenery as they have a huge customer base and 4 sims to supply for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tiger, I see you mentioned you have a good collection of aircraft in your P3D v3 setup. Just want to mention that if you have, or in the future want to fly PMDG or Aerosoft "tube-liners", forget about AFS2 and FSW. I believe P3D v4 is the best 64 bit simulator for in-depth simming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, TigerTigerM said:

But now it appears P3D v4 has VR capability - as good as AFS2 or not?  I don't know. 

 

No, P3D VR doesn't come close to AFS2 VR. Apart from AFS2 being a LOT more smoother (where a lot of people limit fps in P3D to 30 AFS2 has two preset limits: 120 and 240... which says a lot. I run it without a limit btw) the implementation in AFS2 is a lot better right now. You can click anything you can click with ease. In P3D you have to close one eye (to disable the stereo view) in order to use the mouse.

 

System wise P3D offers a LOT more at this moment, that's for sure. No one knows what AFS2 will offer in that regard in the future. Although it has to be said it seems the possibilities within AFS2 go further than other sims. But well, obviously you can't fly possibilities. ;) 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P3D will continue to be my primary sim (v3 until the OrbX airports get updated, I need somewhere to land). AFS2 looks promising in some areas, but it's lacking in others. It's still a very "bare-bones" simulator. We'll see whether it can maintain the current, high frame rates once it has ATC, systems modelling, weather modelling etc. Even in terms of scenery, it's very basic at the moment. It's just a photographic overlay with 3D objects on top, no vector data, autogen, OSM data etc. P3D and X-Plane have a lot more "rules" for how to render the scenery, which is why AFS2 can run so smoothly.

I might buy the occasional addon for AFS2 once they fix their weather/cloud system, but I won't buy every addon released for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will stick with P3D v4, Aerofly FS2 looks great but I will not call it a in-depth flightsimulator.
Nice for some casual flying but I don't see PMDG, A2A and Aerosoft onboard in the near future.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It certainly depends on your focus. I am nearly exclusively interested in VFR/GA flying, not so much in system depth but in visuals. I intend to get addons for Prepar3d4 as well as AeroflyFS2 in parallel, at least for some time. Even more as the number of AeroflyFS2 addons is limited yet and ORBX gives a rebate if you already own them for Prepar3d.

 

I must confess I am quite impressed by AeroflyFS2, despite there are important elements still lacking and I miss support by some addons I rely on like SPAD.neXt and FS-FlightControl. BTW, I am not using any VR gear but a well-equipped hardware panel.

 

Kind regards, Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Matthijs said:

I will stick with P3D v4, Aerofly FS2 looks great but I will not call it a in-depth flightsimulator.

I think the keyword is "in-depth flightsimulator". Is system simulation important for you?

It's no longer important to me - so therefore my experience now is that I spend the most time using Aerofly FS2 and FSW. Both have a great future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the best strategy of OrbX is to let people get 2 versions of the same Orbx scenery for the price of one. You buy a P3D version and you get a FS2 version for free. You buy a FS2 version and you get a P3D version for free. This won't cut OrbX's profit, because the 2 groups of users don't overlap. In this way OrbX will get more profit from a long run, because it will encourage P3D users to buy FS2, and FS2 users to buy P3D, and the growing user base will bring more buyers of OrbX. This is a win win win win scenario: P3D wins, FS2 wins, OrbX wins, and simmers win.

Edited by yanlaoge
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, alcliff said:

I think the keyword is "in-depth flightsimulator". Is system simulation important for you?

It's no longer important to me - so therefore my experience now is that I spend the most time using Aerofly FS2 and FSW. Both have a great future.

 

Well said, and by reading your post I just found out I'm the same, I have no need for an IN-DEPTH sim, and again what does that mean???? C&D cockpit? (I don't care and never will) Another thing that fascinate me is the included planes and the quality of those. What I care a lot is a OOM free sim that is smooth like heck, load fast and easy to set up.

Beautiful and easy interface. ORBX venue made me bye it but to be honest, I would have done so even without ORBX

 

Ben

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, yanlaoge said:

I think the best strategy of OrbX is to let people get 2 versions of the same Orbx scenery for the price of one. You buy a P3D version and you get a FS2 version for free. You buy a FS2 version and you get a P3D version for free. This won't cut OrbX's profit, because the 2 groups of users don't overlap. In this way OrbX will get more profit from a long run, because it will encourage P3D users to buy FS2, and FS2 users to buy P3D, and the growing user base will bring more buyers of OrbX. This is a win win win win scenario: P3D wins, FS2 wins, OrbX wins, and simmers win.

 

I think you fail to see how much work there has to go in the AFS2 versions. These aren't simple ports as FSX > P3D are. A LOT had to be done from scratch. It actually wouldn't have surprised me if they charged full price for both. The 40% discount rule is very generous.

 

23 minutes ago, Benny said:

 

Well said, and by reading your post I just found out I'm the same, I have no need for an IN-DEPTH sim, and again what does that mean???? C&D cockpit? (I don't care and never will) Another thing that fascinate me is the included planes and the quality of those. What I care a lot is a OOM free sim that is smooth like heck, load fast and easy to set up.

Beautiful and easy interface. ORBX venue made me bye it but to be honest, I would have done so even without ORBX

 

Ben

 

Well, I actually DO like a cold and dark cockpit, even in a GA, and deeper systems, so I am looking forward to IPACS Dash and the updates for the default planes, but when push comes to shove I am more into pretty scenery with real sunshine and all that at an insance fps. The fast loading and ease of setup are extremely nice bonuses. Specially since moving from 2D to VR there is no going back after flying in AFS2.

Edited by J van E
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, yanlaoge said:

because the 2 groups of users don't overlap. .

They do overlap, at least partially. Read my contribution above.

 

Besides, I agree to J van E, there's a lot of work to be done which has to be refunded. I find the coming practice with a nice rebate a good solution.

 

Kind regards, Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, J van E said:

Well, I actually DO like a cold and dark cockpit, even in a GA, ....

To me, it's not full system-depth or zero. But for example, it's comfortable to let the copilot in Aerofly FS2 insert all necessary data in the cdu ....:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
P3D will continue to be my primary sim (v3 until the OrbX airports get updated, I need somewhere to land). AFS2 looks promising in some areas, but it's lacking in others. It's still a very "bare-bones" simulator. We'll see whether it can maintain the current, high frame rates once it has ATC, systems modelling, weather modelling etc. Even in terms of scenery, it's very basic at the moment. It's just a photographic overlay with 3D objects on top, no vector data, autogen, OSM data etc. P3D and X-Plane have a lot more "rules" for how to render the scenery, which is why AFS2 can run so smoothly.

I might buy the occasional addon for AFS2 once they fix their weather/cloud system, but I won't buy every addon released for it.



Photographic scenery with 3D objects is not basic, it's the gold standard of flight sim scenery. Just look at any good Orbx airport. If you want good examples of AF2 scenery, look at the dense New York buildings, or just buy LOWI tomorrow.

There's also a persisting myth that the great performance of AF2 is due to bits that are missing. That's not true, it's just an example of what you can do with a modern engine. For example, set clear skies in fsx and fly the default 747. Now compare it to the default 747 in Aerofly 2, you'll see the latter is far superior in performance, and is closer to reality in terms of systems than the FSX version (try the eicas buttons in the fax version, or attempt to find the FL CH button on the MCP!)

People were also saying that aerofly's superb performance was just because there's no autographs/3D objects, but then orbx threw half a million trees/buildings at it, and it seems to have coped fine!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the best strategy of OrbX is to let people get 2 versions of the same Orbx scenery for the price of one. You buy a P3D version and you get a FS2 version for free. You buy a FS2 version and you get a P3D version for free. This won't cut OrbX's profit, because the 2 groups of users don't overlap. In this way OrbX will get more profit from a long run, because it will encourage P3D users to buy FS2, and FS2 users to buy P3D, and the growing user base will bring more buyers of OrbX. This is a win win win win scenario: P3D wins, FS2 wins, OrbX wins, and simmers win.



I think you'll find a lot of people who own the fsx version of airports will be interested in the AF2 versions. Massive overlap, perhaps the perception that there isn't comes from the idea that AF2 isn't a sim (which it unequivocally is).

I also hear all the time that AF2 is only for GA, there's also some great tubeliners, that are very flyable - Mcp/EFIS code is decent - and will be a step more usable once a few more key systems are implemented.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, robwhitehead said:

but then orbx threw half a million trees/buildings at it, and it seems to have coped fine!

 

Did I miss something?

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Did I miss something?

Ben



Jv comment from elsewhere about LOWI, we can all try it out for ourselves very soon. But if you want to see FS2 with more than straight orthoscenery, it's already been possible for quite some time. The New York DLC is the best example.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, robwhitehead said:

But if you want to see FS2 with more than straight orthoscenery, it's already been possible for quite some time. The New York DLC is the best example.

 

What is ORBX involvement in NYC DLC?

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ask this question on another thread and JV kindly replied that v4 was a serious simulator and that AFS2 was a casual simulator.  One of my objections is that AFS2 is a Steam "GAME".  John described Steam as a digital delivery system, nothing more.....I am not sure I agree.  I dislike....read won't buy...any software that requires you to be connected to the internet for the software to work.  And while in some cases Steam provides a off line function, I have never been totally satisfied with it....in fact, I did some testing on FSX-SE way back when and had so many problems I removed the software and never went back.  I am sure they have improved some by now, but I still have issues with connected delivery....I can see "rental" in the future....and I think there could be a security issue as well.  

 

With that said, JV has said in other posts that if you into 4K monitors and VR, then AFS2 gives you great eye candy.   My take is that if you don't mind the Steam delivery system and you want a casual flight experience with some great visuals but don't care about high end controllers and real weather, then AFS2 might be a good match.....it costs about the same as P3Dv4....I don't think I need two.

 

A comment on GA airplanes....I only fly GA airplanes because I want to see the wonderful scenery ORBX creates, I can't see much detail from 30,000 feet at 400 mph!  To have great scenery for take off and landing just ins't enough...but that's MY opinion.

 

Henry

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, windquest said:

A comment on GA airplanes....I only fly GA airplanes because I want to see the wonderful scenery ORBX creates, I can't see much detail from 30,000 feet at 400 mph!  To have great scenery for take off and landing just ins't enough...but that's MY opinion.

 

Totally agree, that's my purpose of flying, too. No bad feelings about others with other priorities, though.

 

Kind regards, Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, windquest said:

One of my objections is that AFS2 is a Steam "GAME".

 

It's all very subjective. I absolutely LOVE Steam and if possible I avoid buying anything outside of it. It is the most convenient software system around. And I wonder why you typed "GAME"...? Do you think that because it is released on Steam it is a game...? Orbx will be selling Aerofly FS 2 soon too from their own website: does that suddenly make it a sim? I don't get all that sim vs game vs whatever. A piece of software is what it is to you, no matter what label anyone puts on it. Did you know Steam also sells (for instance) audio sequencer software? Does that suddenly make it a game too? Anyway, even if the developers themselves would call Aerofly FS 2 a game, I wouldn't care and I'd still love it because it so nicely simulates flying a plane. ;) 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Add the fact that FSX:SE and XP11 are distributed via Steam, too. I don't enjoy the game-ish Steam language either, but at the end of the day it's the simulator which counts.

 

Kind regards, Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know how people dislike steam, i own over 220 games/3d software on steam, steam is like the new FTX Central, you dont need to hoard anything

at home, just click on the game you like to install/uninstall, games get updated automaticaly if you like. Steam was one reason i sold my Oculus Rift and kept

my HTC Vive, i just dont need another Store (ie. Oculus store, UPlay). Beside Prepar3D, every other flightsim i own is on steam, its so easy and nice to have

everything under one roof, thats why i like the new FTX Central, it will work with your steam software too.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Nedo said:

i dont know how people dislike steam, i own over 220 games/3d software on steam, steam is like the new FTX Central, you dont need to hoard anything

at home, just click on the game you like to install/uninstall, games get updated automaticaly if you like. Steam was one reason i sold my Oculus Rift and kept

my HTC Vive, i just dont need another Store (ie. Oculus store, UPlay). Beside Prepar3D, every other flightsim i own is on steam, its so easy and nice to have

everything under one roof, thats why i like the new FTX Central, it will work with your steam software too.

 

 

Agree totally. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-06-14 at 5:18 PM, robwhitehead said:

 


Photographic scenery with 3D objects is not basic, it's the gold standard of flight sim scenery. Just look at any good Orbx airport. If you want good examples of AF2 scenery, look at the dense New York buildings, or just buy LOWI tomorrow.

There's also a persisting myth that the great performance of AF2 is due to bits that are missing. That's not true, it's just an example of what you can do with a modern engine. For example, set clear skies in fsx and fly the default 747. Now compare it to the default 747 in Aerofly 2, you'll see the latter is far superior in performance, and is closer to reality in terms of systems than the FSX version (try the eicas buttons in the fax version, or attempt to find the FL CH button on the MCP!)

People were also saying that aerofly's superb performance was just because there's no autographs/3D objects, but then orbx threw half a million trees/buildings at it, and it seems to have coped fine!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

Photographic scenery with accurate, matching 3D objects is indeed the gold standard. AFS2 isn't there yet. If you were to compare the poly count of a typical AFS2 scene with that of XP11 or P3D, you'd find that AFS2 is faster because it's doing less.

 

It looks great around downtown SFO, NY etc., but outside of those *manually populated* regions, it's very barren. The texture resolution quickly tapers off, and there are no 3D buildings at all. They have some kind of system for placing trees semi-accurately, but often you'll see trees growing in the middle of a road or from  2D buildings. Besides, it looks weird flying over a city that's completely flat except for the trees.

 

Speaking of roads, the there's no road network and no traffic modeled in AFS2. The roads you see are just part of the 2D texture. There are no coastlines, railroads, water masks, rivers, land classification etc. either, everything is just "baked into" the 2D photographic texture. X-Plane and P3D have to make a lot of decisions on how to render the scenery and which texture to use, based on things like land classification, latitude, elevation, slope etc. Those sims pull data from several different sources, where as AFS2 just drapes the photographic texture over the terrain in a one-step process. Even when you use something like Orho4XP in X-Plane, you combine it with all this overlay data to create the complete scenery.

Edited by JimmiG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, JimmiG said:

It looks great around downtown SFO, NY etc., but outside of those *manually populated* regions, it's very barren. The texture resolution quickly tapers off, and there are no 3D buildings at all. They have some kind of system for placing trees semi-accurately, but often you'll see trees growing in the middle of a road or from  2D buildings. Besides, it looks weird flying over a city that's completely flat except for the trees.

 

I fully agree on a lot of stuff you say, but... fly LOWI in FSX and fly it in AF2... at 100+ FPS on top.

Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To address my position on Steam comes from the fact that I am a CSE.  Platforms that deliver digital products are one thing, Steam is another.  First of all this lends it's self to rental of the software in the future, perhaps something you like and will be comfortable with, I am not.  There the potential of security issues and tracking, something else I am not a fan of.  Steams bills its self as a gaming platform, not my words, theirs.  Now then, this delivery system may be right for you, it isn't for me.

 

Now to AeroFlyFS2.  JV said it all when he called it a "casual Sim"  it is not intended to replace PD3v4 which, as I understand it is the flagship Sim product of ORBX.  AFS2 seems to be a quick way to get in the air and fly around.  It is not intended for realistic IFR, with photo real scenery you don't get to fly in 4 seasons, you need no flight planning or weather, there is no path to  realistic operation....yet.

 

AS discussed, AFS2 is an example of what can be done with a modern engine and if applied to the same requirements of P3dv4, I could see it quickly becoming THE sim of the future....P3Dv4x might get there.  LM still fights the legacy issues, desperately trying to stay as compatible as possible to earier versions.  LM invests huge sums of money because of the commercial training program, not because of the flight sim community.  AFS2 will be successful because of the flight simmers and with that in mind, as a community we probably will have some input.  ORBX has taken a giant step with their support and with VR and 4k becoming mainstream, the eye candy is hard to resist.  While I have to agree that scenery outside of the populated areas is sparse, it is in all sims to some degree.   Personally I can't see buying ORBX software unless I fly under 10,000 feet and less that 200kn.  But thats me....it not be you.

 

I think a reasonable position is that acknowledge ARFS2 is in the initial stages of development ....with the support of ORBX, others will surely come on board.  The need for near realism operations may give way to a more casual approach and with our input may see this Simulation soaring...This could be the perfect solution or..... like others that have tried, money and support dwindle, they slip back to the pack and become an "also ran".  Only time will tell.  Right now we all can be on the cutting edge.....also known as the bleeding edge, but there is great motivation to join the journey.  

 

Henry

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Now to AeroFlyFS2.  JV said it all when he called it a "casual Sim"  it is not intended to replace PD3v4 which, as I understand it is the flagship Sim product of ORBX.  AFS2 seems to be a quick way to get in the air and fly around.  It is not intended for realistic IFR, with photo real scenery you don't get to fly in 4 seasons, you need no flight planning or weather, there is no path to  realistic operation....yet.




"Casual sim" is often applied to AF2, but it's not really true. For example, you say it's not intended for realistic IFR - but if you look at the map, you'll note that the Nav aids are all there. You can set low viz conditions very easily. It has all the instruments you need for IFR flight.

If you look at how the flight models are designed, once again you're not in 'casual sim' territory.

It does load quickly, it is available on steam but that doesn't mean it's not a real sim for flight simulation enthusiasts. There's a couple of systems still missing - mixture control springs to mind - but that's because this is prerelease, and the physics behind the planes is still a work in progress. The group of PHDs developing this sim do take it seriously, and are constantly adding features that increase the realism. Take a look at the upcoming Q400 when it comes out, the trend is very much towards more and more systems functionality.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...