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10 minutes ago, Alex Goff said:

I want to keep the thread open for the sake of discussion and assistance but I'm not going to allow it to be the conspiracy theory zone. 

+1,

I didn't open the thread for that, only to exprim my frustration and to ask reactivation of paypal services. 

Please thank to keep the thread in a good mind

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Man, this community is a tough one. Alex did his best to explain in as amicable of a way possible without defaming Paypal or creating some resentment towards their business. But the attacks continue.

Not that a lot of you will care, but has anyone even considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, it is the (insert sarcasm) Oh So Glorious End All Be All Best Payment System In The World....Pay

There is two things that are constants with FTX/ORBX:   1 - Released products have an extremely high quality level. 2 - The company have an extremely high level of disrespect for their

20 minutes ago, Alex Goff said:

 

We did not violate a PayPal policy.

 

Guys, rampant speculation does nothing to restore PayPal or improve the situation. I have laid out the facts of the matter, we ran into an issue with PayPal that severely disrupted our business.

 

I want to keep the thread open for the sake of discussion and assistance but I'm not going to allow it to be the conspiracy theory zone. 

 

Can you go into a bit more detail about the "issue"?

An "issue" still doesn't give anybody a clue of what the actual problem is.

 

Edit:

Creditcards aren't very common in the Netherlands either, so that's why I'm also frustrated about this decision: I use paypal for pretty much all my purchases on the internet.

You have something different here in comparison to the usage of creditcards in the US and Canada: the PIN system, similar to what I saw earlier in this topic about how it works in Germany.

You use it in the store (or online, but that works differently) by putting your card in a terminal and inserting a 4-digit code after which the amount of money spent will immediately be taken off your bank account.

Edited by Raphael Hardholt
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Every seller worldwide, who wants to sell successfully on the net, offers the payment method Paypal. I don't know why ORBX does not offer this anymore. They probably don't want to sell more successfully. I don't care, I'm out. No Paypal, no purchases.

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Well this sucks... Like many others I only use paypal for my online transactions.  Good thing I bought most of what I wanted during this sale. Was planning to get a few more airports but might not be possible for me now.

 

I sure hope Orbx will reconsider and a clear explanation that makes sense in the English language as to why the change would be nice.

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For the folks trying to squeeze out bits and pieces of information, I will provide the entirety of what we will discuss publicly unless John chooses to disclose more. Remember that we are a business, and it is not of the nature of businesses to disclose the entirety of their dealings:

  1. After the launch of OrbxDirect, we encountered a significant issue with PayPal that jeopardizes all of transactions through the payment method and interrupts continuity of business.
  2. We have suspended PayPal as a payment method on our own decision when we could not reach a resolution after several weeks.
  3. We did not suspend PayPal to push one payment portal over another, we want to offer ease of payment to our customers.
  4. This is not some form of punishment, remember that we are the ones losing sales over this choice. 
  5. This is not a change we planned with the launch of OrbxDirect. The plan from the start was to offer credit/debit payments and PayPal for all other forms of payment.
  6. We did not suspend PayPal because of its transactions fees. Our current primary payment method, Stripe, also charges similar transaction fees and we had transaction fees with FSS. It is a business cost that we have had since the very beginning.
  7. There is no security risk to customers as a result of this action, we have never had card or banking details in our possession and it will continue to be this way.

This is the entirety of the information I will provide regarding our relationship with PayPal at the moment. If John decides to speak more on it, we will speak more. The next significant amount of information we will provide on this topic will probably be in the form of an update about future payment methods including PayPal. 

 

Until then, I am happy to answer other questions folks may have. 

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Still very vague but thanks for trying Alex... This is a major bummer and will be a serious roadblock for many going forward.

 

I wish Orbx could have waited for the sale to end before doing this :(

Edited by RHaas
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Well, since many years Paypal is my preferred payment method for internet transactions. If Orbx will hold on the decision to suspend payments via Paypal, then you will really have a very, very big issue with your customers like me. I'm a great fan of Orbx software and i bought very much (if not almost) in the last years via FSS and OrbxDirect: but without Paypal as a simple, fast and secure payment method i'll not do any more purchases.

VERY SORRY ABOUT THAT!

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Alex

 

I appreciate your trying to explain the situation. It is not only the loss of a secure payment issue, but a continuing decline in Orbx credibility that concerns me. We had a needless issue with old FSS installers not being valid, followed by the back up downloading causing the restriction on downloads. We all make mistakes and John was honest and forthright in admitting his error. I respect that. Unfortunately, it is still having an impact on your day to day business and will only go away when customers regain their faith that they will always have access to the products we have purchased.

 

Now that we know it is a business issue between Paypal and Orbx that is causing the removal of the Paypal payment option it further raises the issue in the stability of Orbx as a supplier. Perception is reality in the market place and the current perception is that decision are being made without thought being given to your customers needs and expectations.

 

I truly value Orbx and I am looking forward to your release of KBID and Jarred's release of LOWI. I want you to continue as a developer and Orbx as a supplier. Please get this issue resolved as soon as possible. We do not need to know what the issue is. That is your business. We do need to know that your are working towards a resolution.

 

In the spirit of truthful communication,

 

Greg

Edited by gregmorin
typo
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Alex,

 

so what you are saying at item 1 is, that after you launched OrbxDirect NO transaction via PayPal worked out for you? 

Transactions where marked as succeeded and the customer got his downloads, but you never got your money?

Sorry, but that's very hard to believe.

 

I understand that you don't want to reveal the entire/real story, but then at least don't tell such stories.

 

There is only one entity on the internet that have my CC details, and that is PayPal. That will not change just because you decide not to offer them as payment gateway anymore. I can surely live with your products, question will be, if you will be able to live without the money of your customers?

Edited by Tom A320
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12 minutes ago, Tom A320 said:

Alex,

 

so what you are saying at item 1 is, that after you launched OrbxDirect NO transaction via PayPal worked out for you? 

Transactions where marked as succeeded and the customer got his downloads, but you never got your money?

Sorry, but that's very hard to believe.

 

I understand that you don't want to reveal the entire/real story, but then at least don't tell such stories.

 

There is only one entity on the internet that have my CC details, and that is PayPal. That will not change just because you decide not to offer them as payment gateway anymore. I can surely live with your products, question will be, if you will be able to live without the money of your customers?

 

You can choose to believe what is written or not, regardless I have laid out the facts as plainly as possible. Those who have done business with PayPal from the merchant side may understand what we are dealing with at the moment. I have not dedicated my day to this thread for the purpose of lying, I am here to provide as much information as possible to understandably concerned customers. I could have just as easily never logged in all day and left this for others to attend to, but I wanted to make sure customers were getting the clearest information possible at a time when trust is wavering.

 

We understand good and well that losing PayPal has a substantial impact on our business, probably more so than anybody else right now. That is why we are working toward a resolution to restore the payment method.

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24 minutes ago, Alex Goff said:

For the folks trying to squeeze out bits and pieces of information, I will provide the entirety of what we will discuss publicly unless John chooses to disclose more. Remember that we are a business, and it is not of the nature of businesses to disclose the entirety of their dealings:

  1. After the launch of OrbxDirect, we encountered a significant issue with PayPal that jeopardizes all of transactions through the payment method and interrupts continuity of business.
  2. We have suspended PayPal as a payment method on our own decision when we could not reach a resolution after several weeks.
  3. We did not suspend PayPal to push one payment portal over another, we want to offer ease of payment to our customers.
  4. This is not some form of punishment, remember that we are the ones losing sales over this choice. 
  5. This is not a change we planned with the launch of OrbxDirect. The plan from the start was to offer credit/debit payments and PayPal for all other forms of payment.
  6. We did not suspend PayPal because of its transactions fees. Our current primary payment method, Stripe, also charges similar transaction fees and we had transaction fees with FSS. It is a business cost that we have had since the very beginning.
  7. There is no security risk to customers as a result of this action, we have never had card or banking details in our possession and it will continue to be this way.

This is the entirety of the information I will provide regarding our relationship with PayPal at the moment. If John decides to speak more on it, we will speak more. The next significant amount of information we will provide on this topic will probably be in the form of an update about future payment methods including PayPal. 

 

Until then, I am happy to answer other questions folks may have. 

 

 Thank you Alex

 

You answered my questions as I was typing them.

 

Greg

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I am not a great fan of Pay Pal, but I use it for all overseas purchases (you're in Australia, still, right?) for one simple reason.  Any time I use a credit card for one of these purchases, I get a message from the CC company about a security breach, and that my CC is "Locked".  Then I can't make any purchases, anywhere.  I then have to call them, convince them that it is really I, in Huntington NY USA who is making a purchase someplace in Australia, or Germany, or Ireland.  A real nuisance.  Using Pay Pal solved this problem after the first time.  Please work this out and bring back Pay Pal, for all its imperfections.

Ken

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1 minute ago, Ken Q said:

I am not a great fan of Pay Pal, but I use it for all overseas purchases (you're in Australia, still, right?) for one simple reason.  Any time I use a credit card for one of these purchases, I get a message from the CC company about a security breach, and that my CC is "Locked".  Then I can't make any purchases, anywhere.  I then have to call them, convince them that it is really I, in Huntington NY USA who is making a purchase someplace in Australia, or Germany, or Ireland.  A real nuisance.  Using Pay Pal solved this problem after the first time.  Please work this out and bring back Pay Pal, for all its imperfections.

Ken

Personally, I'd much rather have the nuisance of having to re-verify who I am to Paypal, in order to securely purchase anything online (I know Visa and Mastercard have similar measures in place for foreign transactions), than to have my info leaked, hacked, jacked or otherwise, leaving me with zeros in my bank account.  If any blame is to come about, it's for the bad people in the world who made it that much harder for us to conduct business worldwide, BUT at the same time, if ORBX had any reservations about Paypal's TOS or if anything brought up a red flag, this could have been handled a lot more efficiently, perhaps even transparently for the customer.  To spring this decision on the customer base like this is major (and so soon after opening their store). :(

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5 minutes ago, jmorvay1971 said:

to have my info leaked, hacked, jacked or otherwise, leaving me with zeros in my bank account.

 

We can get hacked anywhere... at the corner store, gas station. It's no more an online thing then a local thing.

2 years ago my company credit card was hacked 3 time in 6 weeks, they simply gave me a new card each time and money was back in the same day.

 

They found out that a UK business was hacking me. So what?

 

Some people are scared of being scared.

 

And yes, Paypal is way more on the customer side. 

 

Ben

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Guest Colin M
43 minutes ago, Alex Goff said:

For the folks trying to squeeze out bits and pieces of information, I will provide the entirety of what we will discuss publicly unless John chooses to disclose more. Remember that we are a business, and it is not of the nature of businesses to disclose the entirety of their dealings:

  1. After the launch of OrbxDirect, we encountered a significant issue with PayPal that jeopardizes all of transactions through the payment method and interrupts continuity of business.
  2. We have suspended PayPal as a payment method on our own decision when we could not reach a resolution after several weeks.
  3. We did not suspend PayPal to push one payment portal over another, we want to offer ease of payment to our customers.
  4. This is not some form of punishment, remember that we are the ones losing sales over this choice. 
  5. This is not a change we planned with the launch of OrbxDirect. The plan from the start was to offer credit/debit payments and PayPal for all other forms of payment.
  6. We did not suspend PayPal because of its transactions fees. Our current primary payment method, Stripe, also charges similar transaction fees and we had transaction fees with FSS. It is a business cost that we have had since the very beginning.
  7. There is no security risk to customers as a result of this action, we have never had card or banking details in our possession and it will continue to be this way.

This is the entirety of the information I will provide regarding our relationship with PayPal at the moment. If John decides to speak more on it, we will speak more. The next significant amount of information we will provide on this topic will probably be in the form of an update about future payment methods including PayPal. 

 

Until then, I am happy to answer other questions folks may have. 

 

22 minutes ago, Alex Goff said:

 

You can choose to believe what is written or not, regardless I have laid out the facts as plainly as possible.

Actually, you haven't We've all had to gradually coax this info out of you, this is a disgraceful state of affairs.

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I don't mind using Orbx Direct store with my credit card rather than paypal, but when trying to buy Hammerfest directly the system did not accept my Zip code. Repeated tries, and my CC is locked now. I am sure, however, that Orbx will tackle it well, once they have found a way to move forward with or without PayPal. The whole point of the Direct Store is that is should be simple which I am sure it will be again, just give them some days to sort it out.

Edited by BrianV
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7 minutes ago, Sniper31 said:

We, the customers, do NOT know what is going on behind the curtains. We....don't.....know.... Let's put out the torches, back down from the gates and stop 'storming the castle'. We, the customers, do NOT have a crystal ball. Now unless some of you are spies or something, I heartily suggest you all cease the speculation and let Orbx handle their business.

 

Amen! I gave you an appreciation :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: so you went from 204 like to 205, ha ha ha ha.

Ben

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1 hour ago, Raphael_679 said:

 

Can you go into a bit more detail about the "issue"?

An "issue" still doesn't give anybody a clue of what the actual problem is.

 

Edit:

Creditcards aren't very common in the Netherlands either, so that's why I'm also frustrated about this decision: I use paypal for pretty much all my purchases on the internet.

You have something different here in comparison to the usage of creditcards in the US and Canada: the PIN system, similar to what I saw earlier in this topic about how it works in Germany.

You use it in the store (or online, but that works differently) by putting your card in a terminal and inserting a 4-digit code after which the amount of money spent will immediately be taken off your bank account.

I tried both of my cards as PayPal does not work, but it did not work with both cards.... seems to be a bit a mess. If you have to opern a ticket each you wanna buy... hope you get the issues solved soon.

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Another suggestion (mainly for European customers, idk about how it works in NA):

 

Make payment by bank transfer available! it's easy: don't give the customer the product before you received the money transfer via bank.

Simmarket does this too.

Or, make direct debit available.

Edited by Raphael_679
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Thank you Alex for the briefing, and Sniper31 for the dose of reality. I am a Paypal user, used it yesterday to purchase Hammerfest. Next purchase, Innsbruch, hopefully will be by MasterCard or Visa, or whatever working.

 

I think its time to lock this topic.

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Ah, shucks. Just as I was contemplating finally trying out buying something through FTX Direct - so no purchase from me. But at least it's just making my transition to X-plane that bit easier...

 

Cheers

 

Mallard

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This is a business decision folks and not one we have taken lightly as we know that PayPal was heavily utilised on our storefront. For us to have reached that decision one can maybe appreciate the complexity of the issue that has since arisen - especially during a major sale. 

 

We don't have to disclose the full story as to why, that's our prerogative, so no more speculation please. Alex has answered most of the concerns raised. 

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21 minutes ago, Colin M said:

 

Actually, you haven't We've all had to gradually coax this info out of you, this is a disgraceful state of affairs.

 

Colin, what more information could you want? Everything I have stated can be summed up in my original post:

 

Quote

Our suspension of PayPal was done as a measured response to business issues that arose.

 

I am positive that if you put Google to work and research business disputes that have occurred between PayPal and companies big and small, you may find some scenarios that match up with the information I have posted.

 

Now, please let the issue rest. As a business we are not keen to disclose our dealings and relationships with other businesses. Orbx has deals and disputes that occur frequently, just as a byproduct of running business. Nonetheless PayPal is one of our business partners we have had a long relationship with via FSS and it is not professional to discuss private business publicly. There is no grand conspiracy to uncover, simply business that has had the unfortunate side effect of impacting our customers. 

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A few thoughts on this:

 

1) It definitely takes away the impusle buy.  I see something great on Avsim, a video on Frugel Sim News, drop in here to look at it and then bam buy with Paypal.  Now I have to go downstairs, get the wallet, etc, etc.  probably give it a second thought and maybe not bother.

 

2) The credit card things does not bother me at all, but I can see how it would for some.  For those who are really paranoid, just get another credit card with a very low limit of say $500 and use it exclusively for online purchases.  I have purchased so much online with credit cards and never had an issue, I suspect most will not either.

 

3) For ORBX a suggestion for those who want to use PayPal - charge a higher price to cover the cost difference.  There are creative ways to do it that will not violate the TOS with Paypal.

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2 minutes ago, mark767 said:

3) For ORBX a suggestion for those who want to use PayPal - charge a higher price to cover the cost difference.  There are creative ways to do it that will not violate the TOS with Paypal.

 

They already said it wasn't about the paypal costs.

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We removed the screenshot, even though it was over ORBX scenery because it did not show enough ORBX scenery under those gorgeous but non orbx clouds.

 

Get it yet, they don't care about us as customers or even human beings, only for ORBX, they are haughty, proud, and puffed up.

 

And we all know that pride goeth before a fall, these debacles are going to be their downfall.

 

I want LOWI, but that's about it.

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46 minutes ago, Sniper31 said:

For me, I will continue to purchase Orbx products in whatever fashion I need to. If I want something and have the legal means to get it, then I get it. It's not rocket science

 

Very good, Same here, Don't see what the Issue is 

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Please keep it focused, personal attacks and general disrespect are not necessary.

 

We understand your frustrations and I am trying to keep this thread focused on giving customers a space to raise their concerns about PayPal being suspended. 

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I'm also here to comment how disappointed I am about this decision ... whatever the reason is.

 

I simply see 98% of all online stores (I use) all around the world using PayPal, but ORBX abandons it ....ok.

No PayPal, no Purchase on my side.

 

What I find really annoying is, that this happens during a sale ... had at least two more products in view before Xmas.

 

 

Quote

will probably be in the form of an update about future payment methods including PayPal

 

Hopefully this will become true ....

 

Edited by Guenseli
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