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noted Strange grass shadows in KTVL Lake Tahoe


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Hi ORBX team,

 

I've noticed strange shadows cast by grass objects in KTVL, see picture (latest P3Dv3, latest libs installed, NA region applied, latest nVidia drivers, no nVidia Inspector / ENB / other graphics modifications). Vegetation Shadows are turned off. These grass shadows disappear when the "SimObjects Cast Shadows" option is turned off. But that removes other shadows as well, like those from static aircraft.

 

KTVL.png

 

This seems to be something specific with the grass in KTVL, I haven't noticed this in other places in the ORBX world. Also, the grass seems to be a bit too much translucent, other airports have more "solid" grass.

 

Any idea what might cause this?

 

Thanks & regards,
  Hans

 

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I think it's to do with P3D ground shadowing. I also get it - and (I think) at other airports too. I don't want to turn off all the receive shadowing options (which would cure it) as I like the way it works around airport buildings etc.

 

I'm not sure if it's a LM/P3D problem or an FTX one. Though it's only a small annoyance, I wish there was a solution.

 

Adam.

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I'm not sure Adam, I did a closer inspection of another ORBX airport (S45 in this case), and there the grass does not cast any shadows at all (even with Vegetation Shadows turned on). So it might be a design choice to have the grass in KTVL casting shadows (although from the way it looks I doubt it). If I could vote I'd say turn off grass shadows completely in KTVL (and wherever else they might be active). Might even give a little boost in FPS.

 

Of course it's only a small annoyance, but is it my fault that ORBX has raised the bar for scenery design this high ;) ?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/29/2016 at 10:08 AM, TheGreenToad said:

Dear ORBX team, I know you are currently very busy with creating lots of great new stuff for us, but wouldn't it be possible to spend some time on your older products like KTVL as well? I'm sure they deserve it!

 

The Green Toad,

 

1st, Great Name!  It must have a meaning to it.

2nd, I was just going to post you a PM about this but with your banter above, I thought it deserved an open comment.

 

Answer.....  looking at your screen shot and the strength of your SHADOW (darkness) it is a setting in your P3D.  Try putting your shadow on LOW setting.  This will lessen the affects of the shadow from the grasses.   I notice your photo is taken near noon.  That would be its strongest shadow down on the X mark of the grasses.  Insure you have all the Orbx grasses for that scenery turned on.

 

I also noticed all your details of your trees being blotted out from your HIGH setting on the shadows.  This will have the same affect on them and your clouds rolling accros the ground.  

 

Yes, you could turn off the grass, but it only have the effect when you align yourself with the sun at the long axis of the grass.  And your trees and shadows from all your objects would still have the same affect.

 

It is basically a P3D setting and not Orbx.

 

Have a blessed day,

 

Larry @ www.virtualpilot.org 

 

 

Edited by Larry@VirtualPilot.org
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1 hour ago, Larry@VirtualPilot.org said:

1st, Great Name!  It must have a meaning to it.

 

It does not really have a meaning, it's just that I took this picture of a green toad (actually two toads, there is a black one sitting right next to him) and liked it so much that I used it as profile picture in several places. And what profile name would be more fitting?

 

1 hour ago, Larry@VirtualPilot.org said:

Try putting your shadow on LOW setting.

 

I always thought the shadow slider was just to change the shadow map size / lod (i.e. shadow details), and not the strenght of shadows. Also, I deliberately took the screenshot at noon to emphasize the look of it. The lighting settings are the default ones, I didn't change anything there.

 

1 hour ago, Larry@VirtualPilot.org said:

It is basically a P3D setting and not Orbx.

 

Yes and no. I could of course tweak the P3D lighting settings to make these shadows less noticable. But my point is, this is the only ORBX airport (as far as I know) where the grass is casting shadows at all. In my opinion it just looks bad, no matter how noticable the shadows are. So my suggestion is to either remove grass shadows completely for KTVL, or at least make them optional.

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13 hours ago, TheGreenToad said:

 Yes and no. I could of course tweak the P3D lighting settings to make these shadows less noticable. But my point is, this is the only ORBX airport (as far as I know) where the grass is casting shadows at all. In my opinion it just looks bad, no matter how noticable the shadows are. So my suggestion is to either remove grass shadows completely for KTVL, or at least make them optional.

 

And this is probably why ORBX will say NO MORE for P3D upgrades.  For the price of a lunch, I have gone from FSX to P3Dv2.5 to P3Dv3.2 with KTVL.   Add on my "Old Man" discount and it is a steal for scenery for us slow flying, high detailed pilots.  They cannot anticipate every configuration that an upgrade will make nor for the settings that individuals will demand. 

 

Every setting in WINDOWS, your monitor, your video card, and your simulator will have an affect on any of the visual effects offered in ORBX and P3D.  At some point enough is enough for a vendor of software.

 

I think by their none addressing of your banter, this thought would have came to you.  The next comment may be, we will consider it on the next upgrade (which there will not be, by their post about P3Dv3.2).   Any change now on will probably mean some cash!  I would really consider it if P3D changes that drastically.  But yes, I am flying great and what you are claiming is not there for me to notice.  Your staging the shot to prove a point is noted.

 

Regards,

 

Larry @ www.virtualpilot.org

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On 5/30/2016 at 9:29 AM, Larry@VirtualPilot.org said:

It is basically a P3D setting and not Orbx.

 

I disagree! That's like saying "turning your monitor off will cure the problem" :lol:

 

Grass works perfectly in 99% of all other airports. Disabling a global setting in P3D at the expense of every other airport is not a solution. The fault is clearly in the shadowing that's been applied to the objects in that airport. I'd say it's an ORBX problem but, as you say, it may be unlikely to be fixed.

 

Adam.

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The problem is (probably) that the grass not flagged as "NoShadow."  I don't know how easy it is to fix that, but maybe they'll offer a Hotfix or a Service Pack.  It was probably just a small accidental oversight.

 

And you're correct that the Shadow slider just relates to the "detail" of the shadow, so to speak.  If you want to make it darker or lighter, you can look at RealismShaderPack (search AVSIM.)

 

It would be nice to see a response from ORBX on this since I do think it's a fairly quick fix, or at least something saying "hey sorry but no we won't fix this."  It is a bug of sorts in a product that officially supports P3D v3, and shadows are a standard setting.

 

-stefan

 

Edited by shortspecialbus
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21 hours ago, shortspecialbus said:

The problem is (probably) that the grass not flagged as "NoShadow."  I don't know how easy it is to fix that, but maybe they'll offer a Hotfix or a Service Pack.  It was probably just a small accidental oversight.

 

And you're correct that the Shadow slider just relates to the "detail" of the shadow, so to speak.  If you want to make it darker or lighter, you can look at RealismShaderPack (search AVSIM.)

 

It would be nice to see a response from ORBX on this since I do think it's a fairly quick fix, or at least something saying "hey sorry but no we won't fix this."  It is a bug of sorts in a product that officially supports P3D v3, and shadows are a standard setting.

 

-stefan

 

 

Even with the newest software releases from ORBX, on a bright day near noon, the X of the grass shadows will be there.  Just saw it in KBHB.  Change the intensity of the SUN w/ shading within P3D and for the most part you have to look for a fault.

 

I am one for thanking Orbx for what I have.  Guys.......  the darn home or single computer flightsimulator is just that.  A good home flightsimulator and not a virtual 3D professional flight simulator with a warehouse of computers making it so.  Quite frankly, I have been in the military flightsimulators and I like my home P3D with Orbx more.

 

A large glass of reality is do here!

 

Regards,

Larry @ VirtualPilot.org

 

 

 

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That is not how you change the intensity of the sun shading.  I just tested - it doesn't work like that.  Are you talking about the Shadow Quality slider, or what exactly?

 

I don't have KBHB.  I do have almost every other airport they've produced (or at least a very high percentage.)  I haven't seen the issue anywhere else, which means they do have a solution, and for whatever reason, probably accidental oversight, it was omitted.  I'm not ranting and raving about it, but it's not unreasonable to ask for a fix, because if I'm right and it just needs to be flagged as NoShadow, it's not a huge effort.

 

Of course I'm thankful for things, but it is a business and it's not at all unreasonable to make requests.  Due to the nature of the sim community and the fact that the forums are used for official service requests, it's not entirely unreasonable to hope for a reply either.

 

I've done software development, and I *want* people to give me bug reports.  It allows me to fix problems that I can't know about if nobody tells me as well as make future products improved.  If they're not going to fix this, that's their prerogative, but they can at least say so in their official support forum on an official support request.

 

Please don't think I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill here, because it really isn't that big a deal, but it rubs me the wrong way when someone makes a bug report and hopes for a response and the community responds that they should be thankful for what they have, as if they didn't pay for the product.  Car analogy time!  If you buy a car and the heated seats don't work, do you write Chevy thanking them for making a wonderful car that's so much better than the halftrack you drove in the military?  After all, it's just a heat seat.  

 

I'm guessing ORBX hasn't given a response because the developer of KTVL is just busy on new projects and hasn't seen this.  ORBX is by no means the size of Chevy, after all.

 

-stefan

 

Edit: The car analogy (like most) is actually kind of bad now that I think about it, since ORBX is hardly the size of Chevy not to mention other problems with it.  I can't seem to come up with a new one that works all that well, but the point is small shop or not, they've set a standard of excellence and one of the things that comes with that is people wanting support when their product doesn't quite meet that standard.  It's not out of line in the slightest.  And I still maintain that hoping for an official response on a documented issue isn't out of line either, even if that response is "Hey - we see this and we're looking into it."  

Edited by shortspecialbus
cruddy analogy.
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Thanks Stefan, couldn't have said it better!

 

Let me just add one sentence from the Product Technical Support section of each product manual: "Orbx has a very simple support policy: no question unanswered.".

 

So I will continue to wait for an answer from the Orbx support team.

 

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I'm pleased to report that we now have proper grass!!! Many thanks, Misha!

 

This was with the P3Dv3.3 update, the new FTX Central, Unified LCLookup and then the latest libraries.

 

I started my flight in NZAR, telemorphed to the UK, then to Lake Tahoe and finally back to NZMF. Three different regions - all in the same session. Amazing!

 

Super job all round B)

 

Adam.

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I'm pleased to report that we now have proper grass!!! Many thanks, Misha!

 

This was with the P3Dv3.3 update, the new FTX Central, Unified LCLookup and then the latest libraries.

 

I started my flight in NZAR, telemorphed to the UK, then to Lake Tahoe and finally back to NZMF. Three different regions - all in the same session. Amazing!

 

Super job all round B)

 

Adam.

 

EDIT: The server must be being hammered (!!!). This page stalled so I had to refresh - hence the duplicate post. If any mod can be bothered, the first one can be nuked!

Edited by Adam_NZ
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Just bought Lake Tahoe in the sale, and am about to install today. Appreciate the update and ongoing support from Orbx. On reading this thread, I think the suggestion that one should not report bugs in a product support forum is misguided! Thanks to the OP for pointing this out, and to Misha for fixing it for us.

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On 4.6.2016 at 3:38 PM, Adam_NZ said:

I'm pleased to report that we now have proper grass!!!

 

I still see the "old" grass with the shadows. I have also installed the latest libraries, did a successful "unification", and upgraded to P3D v3.3.

 

Misha said he will fix this for the next library update last Friday, 3rd June. The latest libraries are dated 28th May, so unless Misha invented a time machine, I guess his fixes aren't part of these new libs. But who knows what Misha is really capable of :D ?

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On 4.6.2016 at 3:38 PM, Adam_NZ said:

I'm pleased to report that we now have proper grass!!!

 

I still see the "old" grass with the shadows. I have also installed the latest libraries, did a successful "unification", and upgraded to P3D v3.3.

 

Misha said he will fix this for the next library update last Friday, 3rd June. The latest libraries are dated 28th May, so unless Misha invented a time machine, I guess his fixes aren't part of these new libs. But who knows what Misha is really capable of :D ?

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On 6/5/2016 at 7:10 PM, Adam_NZ said:

Most odd! Just after I did all the recent updates, I had the grass looking as it should. I checked again just now - and the shadows are back! So my gratitude appears to be a little premature :lol:.

 

Adam.

But never misguided!   :D

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